aardvarkash10 1,056 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Interesting how the technology of the search part of SAR has moved on with PLBs, EPIRB not to mention far better comms and forecasting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Also the point that the small boat fleet was warned by the larger boats of the conditions ahead, yet few, decided to withdraw. Seems none used tried and tested methods of storm management - heaving to, storm anchors, running with drogues etc etc... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 47 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said: Interesting how the technology of the search part of SAR has moved on with PLBs, EPIRB not to mention far better comms and forecasting. What was the doco on? as in youtube, Netflix, or some strange terrestrially transmitted platform where you have no choice when it starts and stops and have to sit though people trying to sell you stuff in your living room that you didn't invite in, and never knew your wanted or needed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Young Entertainer 61 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 was on tv1, but was mainly reused footage from a a program put out 11 years ago by CYCA, can see part one of that here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgsp_kHicu8&t=33s 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 217 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 TVNZ Code 1: Minute By Minute Season 2, Episode 4 https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/code-1-minute-by-minute/episodes/s2-e4 https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/code-1-minute-by-minute They seem to be all Australian documentaries, but pretty good. Episode 2 on the Cronulla Riots was a bit scary. Race riots whipped up by a radio shock jock called Alan Jones. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,056 Posted May 22 Author Share Posted May 22 7 hours ago, Island Time said: Also the point that the small boat fleet was warned by the larger boats of the conditions ahead, yet few, decided to withdraw. Seems none used tried and tested methods of storm management - heaving to, storm anchors, running with drogues etc etc... Race fever Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,056 Posted May 22 Author Share Posted May 22 7 hours ago, K4309 said: What was the doco on? as in youtube, Netflix, or some strange terrestrially transmitted platform where you have no choice when it starts and stops and have to sit though people trying to sell you stuff in your living room that you didn't invite in, and never knew your wanted or needed? That last one. Can't recall the last time I watched linear tv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 356 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Heaving to? In those waves? Really? Doesn't sound like something I would want to attempt…. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,670 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Of course, that's exactly what you'd try first, then if it continued to deteriorate sea anchor or drogue. I've been known to heave to going to weather 25kn just while I cooked dinner. For anyone who hasn't tried it the sudden improvement in comfort is astounding. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 116 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 17 hours ago, Black Panther said: Of course, that's exactly what you'd try first, then if it continued to deteriorate sea anchor or drogue. I've been known to heave to going to weather 25kn just while I cooked dinner. For anyone who hasn't tried it the sudden improvement in comfort is astounding. Same for when someone wants to use the head. Way easier. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 19 hours ago, Clipper said: Heaving to? In those waves? Really? Doesn't sound like something I would want to attempt…. Absolutely. If you can stop, and point the bow somewhat into the waves, the strongest part of the vessel is presented, as your slower/stopped, the time between waves is more and the motion is better. Sailors have been doing this for 100's of years (or more), but the art seems to have been substantially forgotten in the last 50 years. Most Ive ever seen is 93 knots over the deck, and I'm still here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 116 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 93 knots! There's got to be a story in that. I can't comprehend survival at that wind. My worst at 55 knots gives me nightmares still. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Yeah, I'd be happy never to see that again. It was on a parachute, to help us stay hove to. 37 hours. Ended up with seas bigger than the rig - and even though the boat was at about 30 deg to the waves (deliberately, so you don't jump off the backs) the waves were as big as the rig, and in the lee of them, she'd stand upright, just to be over 45 deg and more on the crests due to windage (no sail, bare poles) with a couple of knockdowns included for good measure - caused by wind, not waves. That got pretty tedious pretty fast! I don't believe any sail boat would have survived trying to sail down those waves - but maybe a big modern racer, with helm changes every 20 mins, and sailing faster than the wave train - that's not us. The noise has to be experienced to believe. Wind speed was up around 60-65, but yes, we had gusts and some time displaying 80's, peaking at 93. Over 20 years ago now... seems like forever. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 506 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I guess it's really isn't practiced properly till it's needed. Like how often are you in a position to practice heaving to in 40+ knots with 7m swells unless you are actually doing it for real? A few years ago I got caught out on a Farr 1020 heading to Fiji. 50knot winds and enormous seas. After 24hrs of completely exhausting ourselves we decided to give it a go in the middle of the night. We knew the theory but had no idea if it would work. For the next 8 hours we saw 60-70knot gusts and everyone slept like babies. I think technically we were forereaching but we were slow enough that our slick had enough effect on the waves. It was amazing sitting on deck in the daylight and watching these huge breaking whitecaps heading straight for us, expecting to get totally dumped on, and our slick just stopped them dead, flattening them, as the wave rolled and broke in front and behind us not even a drop of water on the deck. Have never done it in anger since... Have heaved-to CD a few times in the Gulf but not in anger, only to park up and make a cuppa in conditions that I could easily be sailing in... doesn't really count... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 316 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Thanks BP, IT, and Carpe for your real life examples. This is where us less experienced guys sit around the virtual campfire and listen to our elders. Anyone of you ever used a Jordan Series Drogue? Developed if I am correct, by an aeronautical engineer, the theory seems sound and I have read of successful use in survival conditions, with the exception of the girl in the 2018 GG where her line parted - and since her episode I understand you can now order them in Dyneema. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,670 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Never used one in anger. As CD pointed opportunities are few and far between and best avoided. But I remember the first time I read about them and thinking that's it. So I've only used my homemade ones in serious conditions (102kn recorded at north Cape but averages around what IT described), but were I heading somewhere like the southern ocean that would be my weapon of choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 356 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 wow. OK. I just saw the size of the waves ('98 Hobart) and assumed if one of those breaking waves came at you hove to, you'd be well stuffed. I did hear from some guys in that race they carried on as they thought turning around would be more dangerous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 11 minutes ago, Clipper said: wow. OK. I just saw the size of the waves ('98 Hobart) and assumed if one of those breaking waves came at you hove to, you'd be well stuffed. I did hear from some guys in that race they carried on as they thought turning around would be more dangerous. But you'd be mistaken. For multiple reasons. By stopping the boat, you remove its kinetic energy, and a wave must then overcome its inertia before a roll or knockdown happens. This is why heavier boats can be better in extreme conditions. You also minimize the area of the boat that a wave hits, and present the strongest parts to the waves. Finally, it's quite remarkable the effect to weather that heaving to has, and, if using a parachute, the waves break over that as well, and don't really break again before they get to the boat, so that assists the slick effect that heaving to has. These days though, with much better forecasting and comms, you can avoid these conditions much more easily... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 109 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Great to learn from those with experience! That "overcoming its inertia" of a stopped boat as opposed a boat at even hull speed broaching after being hit by top portion of breaking wave and all that becoming rotational energy makes a lot of sense. I guess depends on the magnitude of swell and cross swell. "Unless you can travel faster than the train with meticulous steering". Twenty minutes could seem like hours. Risking stuffing it and a PP. Mate and I planned to go out in 40+ in the gulf and practice Heaving to years ago. Never happened. Anybody heard off increase in StarLink rate? I read in USA it had doubled! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 My starlink rate hasn't changed. $199/month for local roam. Currently got several customers using it in the islands on the same (NZ local roam) plan. They use priority data when doing passages. The issue with heaving to in the gulf is it's shallow, and never gets a fully developed sea state... Still, practicing is a lot better than not!. Island Time will heave to ok without help until about 40-50 knots - then if a wave knocks the bow down she'll try to sail away, and the helm balance is difficult to get right. Once on the 'Chute, that doesn't happen. I'd certainly use a series drogue if I had the sea room, and where I wanted to go was downwind... but I never have to date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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