Cameron 77 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 johnMi I give up ! It's a waste of time as you have already decided what you want to think and nothing will change your mind. The handicaps were only adjusted after two races. The boat that bet you in the first race only got a 6th in the second. So naturally a boat scoring a 1st and a 6th wouldn't increase as much as a 2nd and a 1st. BTW your tune is changing... initially you claimed it was the overnight change of handicap that robbed you. Now it's the change 1/2 way through the first day after which you scored another two 2nd placings... But ignore all that... It's definately a conspiracy. The world is against you ! Anyway I'm over and out.... Link to post Share on other sites
johnk 0 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cam There is one more thing to do and that's to alert the all powerful dearth vader of a rnzys handicapper to the thread to ensure she/he can ride rough shot over everyone else involved in the regatta and make johnmi scratch boat and hopefully double or treble his hcp Hey I know those people I'll make the call now Link to post Share on other sites
johnk 0 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cam Call made They gave confirmed they will be happy to increase putikis hcp by any amount the deeds crew would like I said give him another 15% Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cameron I accept that you are trying to help, and I appreciate that, but you can't just drag my results out of the fleet and not look at the lot. I am not the only one that felt the handicapping in that series was a farce, it's just that they aren't as rude and abnoxious as me. I have also received pm's from other 'crew.org' members giving support. I still feel that these results were rigged, or at best, handicaps changed by an incompetent person who took no notice of history, weather or competitors. I say both history and weather were on my side. Take it or leave it, cos I have, and apparently so has RNZYS. John Good call, why settle for 15, go for 20% Link to post Share on other sites
johnk 0 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Johnmi Happy to suggest 20% Given I am sooo influential anyone else's hcp you want altered so as to rig a winner from the rnzys , or perhaps a person you'd like ruled out b/f the regatta starts Happy to make another call Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 errr.. I guess DD is off that list huh? Link to post Share on other sites
johnk 0 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Johnmi sh*t no I am arranging to have ours eased Link to post Share on other sites
johnk 0 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've made donation to the youth scheme My wife and I are hosting umpires and teams for the youth international and women's match racing The rnzys will repay the feeds and all boats u daikon with a hcp reduction and a promise to never have us as OCS Hell my wife might even be the PRO for the BMW I mean dude the club is so rife with fraud and bribes YEAH RIGHT Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Greg the Handicapper here. The BMW handicaps are issued by the RNZYS and the handicap committee meets (with input from me) and any anomolies are manually adjusted based on "Recent" race history. There is also maual adjustments for changes to boats as disclosed (and some not disclosed) as necessary. But not crew changes. Any alterations to handicaps during the regatta are done by the RNZYS computer program with no manual input. If anyone has a bitch - for god sake contact me. If I recollect correctly, the podium winners for the regatta all had rockstars aboard, something I commented on at the time as handicaps are not adjusted for rockstar staff. They probably took a race or two to get to grips with the boats and came through at the end. For any handicap series, anywhere, if you win on the first day convincingly, you will get adjusted. Hope this clarifies things JohnMI as I did not (or any one else for that matter) fiddle with things manually during the regatta as accused. In fact I was walking my daughter down the isle that weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thanks Greg, for clearing that up, and congrats on getting a new son in law Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So johnMi now that that's all cleared up you'll be racing off to enter. As we want to get more than last years record of 13 boats in our 8.5 division this year. should be another great regatta. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Always said I'd be doing it Booger, sounds like Dean may have his new boat there too. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Greg One thing, if it's as you say, and the handicap is automatically altered during the series, how come in race 7 when I came last my handicap still went up? Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Because like people here have said handicaps are altered over an average of the last couple of races, not just the last one. If it makes any difference to you John its not just the Squadron but in fact most yacht clubs that use the same system, BBYC included. Not sure where this "The RNZYS is out to slaughter me" is coming from really. Nor do i think you need to Jump into a discussion about setting up a new division for smallboats in the BMW that was actually very informative - And being watched by regatta organisers and sponsors. To bleet and put down the clubs running the event. If you think you can do better get onboard otherwise enjoy the regatta and sail faster. Back on topic now team... Looks like there is a fair bit of interest for the D-Division ramping up so thats a bonus! A few 830's, and other various boats that could mix it up/ The SR's at this rate will join in with this division if we cant get enough for our own start. Bring it on cant wait!! Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If you don't want to read about me bleating on about my handicap pass by this entry now. Don't give me the sh*t that I'm crowding your space, plenty of room. I can see that if I'm ignored I'll go away. No I have asked a genuine question. Why did my handicap go up in race 7 when I in fact came last. Shouldn't be able to happen, cos handicap alteration is apparently done automatically. I ask this because I'm accusing someone (don't know who) of making doubly sure that I didn't get on the podium. They relaxed after that because they knew even if I got 1st in the last race, there was no way of me winning, so they lowered my handicap. (see previous post of spreadsheet by Cameron). I'm gonna ask some other hard questions now too. 1. What were the handicaps and how did they change, of the other GBEs as compared to the winning boat. 2. Why, if Greg highlighted that the team on the winning boat were rockstars, that this was ignored. This race to me smacks of making sure that a RNZYS member won. I know that Markm's handicap system is a seperate and different system and I am not suggesting that it should be used or that I am using that as my guide, but not long ago multihull members refered to it as a reference point when they tried to prove I should not have won the singlehanded. Where did the 1st placegetter get using his system, 4th 2nd placegetter, 8th 3rd placegetter 2nd 4th placegetter 1st I can now see why JohnK got so indignant when I accused RNZYS of cheating. It seems that not only 1st place was necessary but 2nd place was necessary as well. Look, I am quite willing to take this off Crew if someone want's to ring me (021993863) and set up a meeting of some sort, cos now more than before, I want this sorted, and I am not going away. At that meeting I want everyone (not Greg necessarily, he did his job correctly) involved with the handicap decisions, the full set of results, and the history of my boat that RNZYS uses. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm gonna ask some other hard questions now too.1. What were the handicaps and how did they change, of the other GBEs as compared to the winning boat. I have no idea how, if at all, mine changed, but I do know that voom had a higher handicap at the beginning than any of the other GBEs. But this was based on past perfromance, so I took it as a compliment and sailed on! Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 JohnK that was a bit tough. I do believe the individual boats involved had nothing to do with the outcome I apologise Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have asked a genuine question. Why did my handicap go up in race 7 when I in fact came last. Shouldn't be able to happen, cos handicap alteration is apparently done automatically. I ask this because I'm accusing someone (don't know who) of making doubly sure that I didn't get on the podium. They relaxed after that because they knew even if I got 1st in the last race, there was no way of me winning, so they lowered my handicap. (see previous post of spreadsheet by Cameron). Perhaps you may be reading the results wrong John? Your handicap in race one (which you came second) was 0.620, Race two (you got first) on a 0.620, (at this point it went up after two good results including winning on handicap by 1 minute 10 seconds in a 30 minute race) Race three you sailed on 0.650 (and still got second) Race four (you got another second) on a 0.650 (At this point computer says its still too low and gotta go up - 4 races and 1 gun, 3 seconds?) Race 5 you sailed on a 0.665 and had a shocker to be honest, 10 minutes behind creepy online. (Computer ignores discrepancies that large out of handicap altering) Race 6 you sailed on a 0.665 and got mid fleet where you probably should have placed given being closer to creepy and just ahead of capricorn. Leading into Race 7 your handicap came back down to 0.660 and you finished 6 minutes behind creepy and behind capricorn by 2 minutes and got 12th on handicap - did you expect to win that race? Race 8 you were back onto the 0.665. After race 8 and having 3 bad results the average results were bad enough for the computer to drop the handicap back down to the 0.650 for race 9. Other handicaps changed aswell. for example - Capricorn started on a 0.675 - Moved to a 0.650 on the last race when yours dropped again. Attitude went from an 0.850 to a 0.745 And there are other examples too. This whole hit that it was a conspiracy to stop you winning is the biggest load of bulls dick i have ever smelt. Funnily enough it wasnt even a heavily involved RNZYS team that won! But to prove that fact also - Division winners and yacht clubs listed below. Div -A PHRF - 1) Tirade - RNZYS 2) Pretty Boy Floyd - BBYC 3) Bullrush - BBYC General Handicap 1) PBF - BBYC 2)Bullrush - BBYC 3) Tirade - RNZYS (Goes to show their that General handicap and PHRF found the same 3 - boats - cant be that bad?) Div -B PHRF - 1) Boogie Flash - RNZYS 2) Stella 1 - RYC? 3) River Rebel - PYBC General Handicap 1)River Revel - PYBC 2)Boogie Flash - RNZYS 3) Stella 1 - RYC? Oh look same again! Yip looks like Squadron really took it out the cheaters... Its very easy to look at the multi results and say a squadron member won them. But dont forget all the multihulls racing is done with the squadron mainly. So boat owners become members of RNZYS so they get cheaper entry fee's, and drinks etc. Its not Squadron that conspired to put them in the top 3, just that 9 out of the 13 multi's in the 8.5 fleet were owned/sailed by members? Pretty hard not to be in the top 3 then as a club aye? Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Now hopefully that explains a fair bit and i think if it doesnt then maybe the best time to bring it up would be the 8.5 committee meeting so that the people that have the answers are right in front of you? Rather than trying to do it over an internet forum? Link to post Share on other sites
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