Auckland to Bluff

[B00B00 310]

OC no one has ever suggested the A2B racle should be cat 3.

You are ranting, read the posts properly....

 

 

Here the quote = "We will keep trying our best with the A2B."

 

 

they have given it CAT 2

 

So I assume she is trying her best to get it CAT 1. if as you suggest she is not suggesting CAT 3.

 

 

BOO BOO

 

Sally just said they will keep trying their best to organise a good event. well thats how I took it anyway. Sally please confirm.

She then agreed that it should be and will be cat 2 but you still keep raving....

[Changed 10]

We did the Three Kings and although we had a sat phone we had VHF reception all of the way, or at least when we had tp make our scheds.

[Guest]

Once again I (and I'm guessing others) am having trouble following your wandering mind - but let's see what can be made of this one:

 

They have gone a long way to make them more sea worthy and escape proof- Especially Multihulls.

Don't understand what you are saying here, who has done what? What makes a boat "escape proof? Is that desirable?

 

although all the books I have read re the multis - they (the crews?)all manage to escape and re enter at will to get daily supplies in the past without having escape hatches as they float close to the surface.

I believe the requirement before hatches was an axe to create a hatch - can someone confirm? OC do you support the concept of escape hatches or not - you do not make that clear?

 

By making them cat 1 and receiving emergency weather e-mails and weather e=mails every forecast period you don't need to handle extreme weather as you would alter course to avoid it.

Here you show a distinct lack of knowledge/understanding/experience. What you describe is a recipe for disaster. Keep sailing long enough and you will face extreme weather, irrespective of what toys you are carrying.

A Vhf usually only has a range 12 - 16 nms. How far is three kings from the nearest VHF receiving station

What is your point?

 

6 nms north from north cape is certainly not in protected waters or sheltered waters. It is in open waters. Cat 1 SSB area.

Your opinion only.

 

Quote "and practically none on teaching those on board the skills that would be useful in extreme weather."

 

Covered by New Rule 1.02.1

 

The safety of a yacht and her crew is the sole and inescapable responsibility of the person in charge who must do his best to ensure that the yacht is fully found, thoroughly seaworthy and manned by an experienced crew who have undergone appropriate training and are physically fit to face bad weather. He must be satisfied as to the

soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear. He must ensure that all safety equipment is properly maintained and stowed and that the crew know where it is kept and how it is to be used. He shall also nominate a person to take over the responsibilities of the Person in Charge in the event of his incapacitation.

 

You prove my point perfectly - the rules abdicate all responsibility. The skipper is responsible, but tell me, where does a skipper, any skipper, go to learn how to deal with extreme weather? I do not know of any answer to that. The course that is now required does not address that except in the most perfunctory manner (well, the one I did that was the case - happy to hear from others.)

How does someone learn when a sea anchor is preferable to a drogue and vice versa, how does someone learn whether it is safer to keep sailing or heave to (different answers in different circumstances), is it a good idea to lie ahull? How do you get a modern lightweight with a cutaway forefoot to heave to? How do you get a heavy double ender to heave to?

The way the "rules" are at the moment you can get Cat 1 and sail away as skipper without any knowledge of such things, but the rules make sure you know what to do when the helicopter arrives.

This was my criticism of the rule changes after the 79 SH, they addressed search and rescue and communications, but nothing about seamanship.

BTW- this is not necessarily a criticism of the people currently offering the courses, they are told the curriculum, and generally do a good job with what they cover.

 

OC

 

Also - I'd be very happy if RAYC pull this off and have a great event, but I have my doubts, we'll find out in the fullness of time.

[Guest]

OC no one has ever suggested the A2B racle should be cat 3.

You are ranting, read the posts properly....

 

 

Here the quote = "We will keep trying our best with the A2B."

 

 

they have given it CAT 2

 

So I assume she is trying her best to get it CAT 1. if as you suggest she is not suggesting CAT 3.

 

 

BOO BOO

 

Sally just said they will keep trying their best to organise a good event. well thats how I took it anyway. Sally please confirm.

She then agreed that it should be and will be cat 2 but you still keep raving....

 

Yes Josh is correct, we are trying to run a good event.

[Guest]

Yes Josh is correct, we are trying to run a good event.

 

Isnt this all that counts with a yacht race.....any chance that we could discuss the yacht race and not get into pointless discussion about the race regulations that are outside of the race organisers? Surely all of the pointless discussion can only be detrimental to the race where good local kiwi sailors are putting in their time to try and get it off the ground.

[SloopJohnB 322]

I see its in the May Issue of the Seahorse racing calender.

 

" A2B Blue Water Classic"

[Guest]

Yes Josh is correct, we are trying to run a good event.

 

Isnt this all that counts with a yacht race.....any chance that we could discuss the yacht race and not get into pointless discussion about the race regulations that are outside of the race organisers?

 

I've got $10 on "No."

[Guest]

Once again I (and I'm guessing others) am having trouble following your wandering mind - but let's see what can be made of this one:

 

They have gone a long way to make them more sea worthy and escape proof- Especially Multihulls.

Don't understand what you are saying here, who has done what? What makes a boat "escape proof? Is that desirable?

 

although all the books I have read re the multis - they (the crews?)all manage to escape and re enter at will to get daily supplies in the past without having escape hatches as they float close to the surface.

I believe the requirement before hatches was an axe to create a hatch - can someone confirm? OC do you support the concept of escape hatches or not - you do not make that clear?

 

By making them cat 1 and receiving emergency weather e-mails and weather e=mails every forecast period you don't need to handle extreme weather as you would alter course to avoid it.

Here you show a distinct lack of knowledge/understanding/experience. What you describe is a recipe for disaster. Keep sailing long enough and you will face extreme weather, irrespective of what toys you are carrying.

A Vhf usually only has a range 12 - 16 nms. How far is three kings from the nearest VHF receiving station

What is your point?

 

6 nms north from north cape is certainly not in protected waters or sheltered waters. It is in open waters. Cat 1 SSB area.

Your opinion only.

 

Quote "and practically none on teaching those on board the skills that would be useful in extreme weather."

 

Covered by New Rule 1.02.1

 

The safety of a yacht and her crew is the sole and inescapable responsibility of the person in charge who must do his best to ensure that the yacht is fully found, thoroughly seaworthy and manned by an experienced crew who have undergone appropriate training and are physically fit to face bad weather. He must be satisfied as to the

soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear. He must ensure that all safety equipment is properly maintained and stowed and that the crew know where it is kept and how it is to be used. He shall also nominate a person to take over the responsibilities of the Person in Charge in the event of his incapacitation.

 

You prove my point perfectly - the rules abdicate all responsibility. The skipper is responsible, but tell me, where does a skipper, any skipper, go to learn how to deal with extreme weather? I do not know of any answer to that. The course that is now required does not address that except in the most perfunctory manner (well, the one I did that was the case - happy to hear from others.)

How does someone learn when a sea anchor is preferable to a drogue and vice versa, how does someone learn whether it is safer to keep sailing or heave to (different answers in different circumstances), is it a good idea to lie ahull? How do you get a modern lightweight with a cutaway forefoot to heave to? How do you get a heavy double ender to heave to?

The way the "rules" are at the moment you can get Cat 1 and sail away as skipper without any knowledge of such things, but the rules make sure you know what to do when the helicopter arrives.

This was my criticism of the rule changes after the 79 SH, they addressed search and rescue and communications, but nothing about seamanship.

BTW- this is not necessarily a criticism of the people currently offering the courses, they are told the curriculum, and generally do a good job with what they cover.

 

OC

 

David,

 

Why don't you write some paragraphs on what to do - load them on your website by hard copy or video and CHARGE $30 BY SECURE CREDIT CARD PAYMENT to view or obtain a copy and you would probably get a mention in the new years honours list for services to yachting.

 

My comment : if you have a parachute anchor you don,t need a drouge. Read to many english accounts re drogues being deployed

 

Winch being completly dislodged from its fittings, Back stays being completly demolished plus other miscellaneous encounters at the stern including a complete section from the stern, the drogue was secured to.

 

The parachute anchor manufacturer in Motueka has a pretty good idea and its all free when you purchase an parachute anchor.

from him.

 

When::: it is the accepted practice to practice in deploying the custom made parachute anchor in varioius weather conditions with your own particular vessel and there is numerious videos that can be purchased on all your subject questions.

[Guest]

OC - I am taking your reply to start another thread as this is drifting too far from the original

[Guest]

Yep I pretty much glazed over with all that safety rhetoric etc etc.

 

the Cat 1 cat 2 debate was always a red herring, there is very little difference apart from some flares, a trysail depending on boat/crew config, some extras for the first aid kit and a spare reeved main halyard (which is one of the first things you'd have for a race like this anyway). The other main issues, raft, ssb are covered in the NOR. In cash terms I doubt there would be $1,000 in it.

 

Despite all the rhetoric, corporate speak and hyperbole from the organisers from what I can see there is the typical highly competent group of kiwi volunteers putting the whole thing together with only our interests and the wider yachting community at heart....it sure would be great if that spirit and culture was allowed to filter through to the mass media so that all could see this race for what it is.

 

as to the $400k and its final destination it seems likely that it is a political move done by the organisers and Mayor Tim to access some funds for their own ends and develop and promote Bluff harbour as a destination, if that is the case why not say so and unhook the monies from yachting so that the public and other sponsors do not see this as money going directly to yachting.

 

I will be interested to see where they propose to put the finish line, entering Bluff Harbour is not a walk in the park and as for the whole concept, racing fully crewed, south in conditions likely to be very light or heavy upwind takes some thinking about and then there is the logistics for getting back to the Auck for most boats...but the again if you had the time to cruise Stewart Island, Puysegur, Presy, Dusky etc etc what a treat you could have, as Rudyard Kipling said, it is the eight wonder of the world

[Fish 0]

Now lets get back on topic,

Here is something exciting, 6 EoI's, two from offshore (Oz), including a pitchfork to play with NZ's one and only grand pitchfork.

 

Anyone else thinking about doing it, or heard rumours about other offshore entries?

203, you can see who to pester for a crew slot now

 

http://www.a2b-race.com/race-details/online-entry/

[Guest]

Ummm, Grant Dalton, in an ETNZ AC72 Foiling Catamaran!?

 

REALLY???

[Marshy 30]

Faarrrk wouldnt that be cool!

[Aussie 0]

Ummm, Grant Dalton, in an ETNZ AC72 Foiling Catamaran!?

 

REALLY???

 

Someone decided to be hilarious and entered the ETNZ 72. They also entered another boat. Those false entries have been deleted now. The ones you see are real.

[Marshy 30]

I would have paid good money to see them try though! That would show good boat handling skills...

[Fish 0]

I completely missed the ETNZ entry, I thought Kiwi Bardy was mizing up the red and white pitchfork with the black and red foiling cat.

 

It would make a good race spectacle to see Team Vodaboat race team Oz - is Vodaboat keen, I thought Bull said he wasn't interested? if he has a friend to play with it could be all on?

[Guest]

I completely missed the ETNZ entry, I thought Kiwi Bardy was mizing up the red and white pitchfork with the black and red foiling cat.

 

It would make a good race spectacle to see Team Vodaboat race team Oz - is Vodaboat keen, I thought Bull said he wasn't interested? if he has a friend to play with it could be all on?

 

 

Would not meet the safety regs nor would ETNZ.

[Fish 0]

I completely missed the ETNZ entry, I thought Kiwi Bardy was mizing up the red and white pitchfork with the black and red foiling cat.

 

It would make a good race spectacle to see Team Vodaboat race team Oz - is Vodaboat keen, I thought Bull said he wasn't interested? if he has a friend to play with it could be all on?

 

 

Would not meet the safety regs nor would ETNZ.

Get over it.

You could go down to the airport with a deck chair and a good pair of binnoculars if you really need some enterainment.

[Guest]

OC: If the vodafone doesn't meet the safety regs can you please explain how we have got cat1 3 times and successfully cleared customs with this paper work 3 times in the past two years and how we will be obtaining a new cert next week for the Fiji race.

[Guest]

OC: If the vodafone doesn't meet the safety regs can you please explain how we have got cat1 3 times and successfully cleared customs with this paper work 3 times in the past two years and how we will be obtaining a new cert next week for the Fiji race.

 

 

Has there been any rebuild since 1/03?

 

Geant as it was then. Competed in the storm ravaged 2002 Route du Rhum, had to stop several times for repairs, Banque Populaire IV went well North and avoided the worst of the weather . How are the repairs holding?

 

 

OC