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Possible Discussion points


TimW

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Been having a few thoughts about the recent series and have a few discussion points I'd like to raise.

 

Heavy Weather shortened course:

I don't think there are enough options for the committee.

The short course would have been too easy in those conditions and barely taken 3 hours. The multi's would have been fine on Shorthaul course 2 just as an example.

 

Start Order:

I think its foolish to have the multi's starting last and having to weave through all the other boats in all the other divisions. We had too many close calls straight after the start for my liking and bearing in mind the lack of maneuvarability of many of the multis it is unnecessarily asking for trouble.

 

Requirement to be tethered on at all times:

Because most multi's don't have lifelines this was raised at the briefing. In past years its been left to your discretion whether to tether on if conditions warrant. It is way safer on the tramp of a multi ,than on a narrow pointy bow that leans over and has no lifelines (i.e compare the bow of a Piedy to that of a multi). Being tehered on when you tack if you have to race up and back the jib is well nigh impossible anyway.

 

If there is any sort of consensus of opinion on the above I will be happy to write a formal letter to SSANZ.

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Re: the start order, I agree let the fastest boats go first as they have the furthest to go and best to get them out of the way so that everyone gets underway cleanly.

 

Re: the alternative courses, i think a few more options would be good so that a decision can be made based on wind speed/direction AND sea-state. The waves were always going to be ugly around channel island with that forecast. Even a course around flat rock then to cow and calf and home (like the Balokovic) would have been 80% of the distance and far more manageable than trying to beat straight into the teeth of it all day.

 

Re: the tethering, this was mentioned at the briefing as an issue but according to the SIs its still your call as its just a recommendation not a requirement:

 

"Securely fitted jackstays (as specified by Yachting New Zealand Safety Regulations 7.23(e) Category 3) on either side of the boat to

the foredeck, all crew are recommended to be clipped on before leaving the safety of the cockpit. Crew on boats without permanently fitted lifelines must be clipped on at all times before leaving the safety of the cockpit."

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Yes send the multis first. Your particular safety requirements you should deal with as a group with the race organisers, the monohull stuff is good as is.

 

Anyhow, there hasn't been much comment about the division 1 and 2 monos and the poor attendance and finishing numbers. Reasons guys? I would have shown up but had a very important family finction on that night, however I wouldn't have had much interest in finishing regardless of damage etc. due to being deep in the results.

 

I think the long race should be the first race, shortest race last. Then by race 3 if you are out of contention in the series (like most are) you are only faced with a day sail to enjoy, not a marathon 15 + hour sail for basically no point. Then there could be a gathering at the club for informal results and general banter afterwards.

 

Anyhow, food for thought.

 

Valium.

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Vooms cockpit is about 5.5m wide, and 8m long, so no worries for me there. :D

 

I have no problem with the last start, allows me to stay in bed half hour longer. Happy either way though.

 

It would be good to have a heavy weather course that does not have channel in it.

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Crew on boats without permanently fitted lifelines must be clipped on at all times before leaving the safety of the cockpit."

 

You don't have life lines on a multi hence Tim's point.

 

Yeah i get that bit I thought the complaint was about it being at all times which isn't what the SIs say.

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Great points raised here Tim!

 

We didn't race because of that forecast but I would agree that additional course options would have given the race committee more options (and less post race criticism - especially from the multis!)

 

Starting the multis first also has merit. At the risk of starting a generic keel boat versus multi war, I feel that the lack of manouverability on multis, coupled with a lack of appreciation of that, and relative multihull speeds from keelboats is a recipe for disaster. Getting the multis away first during the winter series seems to work and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't help everyone's cause to do the same for SSANZ.

 

As for tethering, Cam made a fair point at this year's briefing when he said that tethering was a condition on the race instructions but I suspect that based on the briefing forum (i.e. it was a race briefing, not a debate chamber). I suspect that a formal approach in this and the other points you raise would be welcome and considered by the SSANZ committee.

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Been having a few thoughts about the recent series and have a few discussion points I'd like to raise.

 

Heavy Weather shortened course:

I don't think there are enough options for the committee.

The short course would have been too easy in those conditions and barely taken 3 hours. The multi's would have been fine on Shorthaul course 2 just as an example.

 

Start Order:

I think its foolish to have the multi's starting last and having to weave through all the other boats in all the other divisions. We had too many close calls straight after the start for my liking and bearing in mind the lack of maneuvarability of many of the multis it is unnecessarily asking for trouble.

 

Requirement to be tethered on at all times:

Because most multi's don't have lifelines this was raised at the briefing. In past years its been left to your discretion whether to tether on if conditions warrant. It is way safer on the tramp of a multi ,than on a narrow pointy bow that leans over and has no lifelines (i.e compare the bow of a Piedy to that of a multi). Being tehered on when you tack if you have to race up and back the jib is well nigh impossible anyway.

 

If there is any sort of consensus of opinion on the above I will be happy to write a formal letter to SSANZ.

 

All good points IMHO - though I actually quite liked weaving through the fleet but it probably would be more ideal for multis to start first or at least earlier.

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I think that to have run race two and three as a reverse laps would have been way better this year, and should have been considered, definitely for the 100.

Race two was a shoulders course and waterline length was the winner on the day. Race three had us beating into the predicted worst of it and the worst sea for the longest part ( time wise ) of the course.

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Agree re multis starting first. Also lets get the 3 tonne 30 odd footers out of the small boat division 1. We have a Townson 32, 2 x Farr 9.2's, a Whiting 29 and the mighty Marauder Bays Flyer at 8.4m (not so bad and always well sailed guys).

 

The small boat div was originally set up by up to 26foot club and was great racing for the Peidys, Qtr Tonners, Trailer boats etc all up to or very close to 26 foot and around 1-1.5 tonne displacement. Its a winter series often with significant pressure and usually a long beat and they just waterline us as FNG mentions above which doesn't make great racing. Race two was a good example - the 3 tonne 30 somethings put an hour on us to Gannet - time we were never going to make up downhill on the 2.5 hours back to the finish unless we can pull off a 25knot average speed (something to aim for I guess). An extra 6 feet amidships (+25% on us for example) and another tonne of displacement (+60%) makes a big difference uphill as you all well know.

 

Other than that its a first rate series run by a great organisation so thank you SSANZ, lets just get rid of the size 'slippage' in the Small boat div.

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...lets just get rid of the size 'slippage' in the Small boat div.

When you say 'Small boat div'... do you mean Smallboat-2?

Presumably you don't intend to send the cruisers (with no extras) around the shorthaul course?

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Small boat Div 1.

 

The bigger cruisers with no extras are fine on the Small Boat course unless its light and they decide to match race us as we try to get past which happened for about an hour of race 1.

 

Very frustrating having your race fecked up by a floating block of apartments with the husband audibly coaching the wife on her match racing skills 20 feet away. We got that one on H/C by 26 seconds over FX but lost a lot more time than that trying to get around one 45 foot pig which is not fun.

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Agree re multis starting first. Also lets get the 3 tonne 30 odd footers out of the small boat division 1. We have a Townson 32, 2 x Farr 9.2's, a Whiting 29 and the mighty Marauder Bays Flyer at 8.4m (not so bad and always well sailed guys).

 

The small boat div was originally set up by up to 26foot club and was great racing for the Peidys, Qtr Tonners, Trailer boats etc all up to or very close to 26 foot and around 1-1.5 tonne displacement. Its a winter series often with significant pressure and usually a long beat and they just waterline us as FNG mentions above which doesn't make great racing. Race two was a good example - the 3 tonne 30 somethings put an hour on us to Gannet - time we were never going to make up downhill on the 2.5 hours back to the finish unless we can pull off a 25knot average speed (something to aim for I guess). An extra 6 feet amidships (+25% on us for example) and another tonne of displacement (+60%) makes a big difference uphill as you all well know.

 

Other than that its a first rate series run by a great organisation so thank you SSANZ, lets just get rid of the size 'slippage' in the Small boat div.

 

The smallboat/shorthaul split kind of needs a bit of a relook as there are some crossovers which seems a little strange and don't give good racing. There are a range of mordern-ish 6.5m-8m boats which are sailing in both fleets that would get much better racing against each other.

 

Examples:

Smallboat = E770s, E7.9s, R780

Shorthaul = E6.5, E7, and E7.4

 

Talking to the skippers of these boats, the comment seems to be the first two shorthaul races are OK for these size boats but the last is too much for some, so some enter the small boat course. I'm also guessing these size boats are normally harbour racers and lack some of the navigation equipment to safely do a 15 hour race.

 

We're right in the middle being too fast for the smallboat and not competitive in the shorthaul. I don't really have the answer thou, as SR26s and 930s seem quite happy with the current setup.

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Yeah agreed that could be looked at, The SR26's used to do the small boat courses. But were too quick back in the day to do that, so they stepped up to the Shorthaul to race against the Elliott 7.9's. Which i see now the 7.9's are Small boat?

 

Agreed its weird to see Marauders and co in small boat, yet see an elliott 6.5 and elliott 7m and vickers 7m sportboats doing shorthaul...

 

I love the first two shorthaul courses and im sure those two guys do too, and many of the small boat guys would step up to shorthaul if the third course wasnt so long? I was never going to make the start of race three this year with my crew in noumea and the boat still not fixed from marshes rock its at the hospital so glad it was a windy one anyhow!

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If its a trailer sailor i.e. Ross 780 and E7.4 with a centrecase they should probably stay in small-boat. Mostly designed for flatter water/lakes and a bit of family cruising at Xmas and not structurally up to getting caught out miles from anywhere. Some wouldn't have the righting moment required either.

 

We (E7.4) had good racing with the likes of Fine Entry the R780 and finished within minutes of each other in both R1 and 2. Geralda and Erazer are very well sailed in SH Sportsboat, well done guys.

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930s seem quite happy with the current setup.
You'll find the 930's aren't but someone is still living in the 70/80's and still thinks we are a sporty for some weird reason as we have none of the sporty gear the entire rest of the fleet has. The 930's are only fleet fillers, knot contenders. Only one R930 did R3 last weekend. There were a few 30ft tweaky Ross boats though ;)

 

Looks like maybe both sporty fleets need a small tidy as to what exactly 'sporty' means.

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I agree with the comments about the small boat division, FC is 26ft but only weights 950kg, I pushed to get in the small boat fleet as I dont want to be caught out at Little Barrier facing a beat home in 40knts.

 

It is slighly different racing when you go upwind in brezee at half the speed and then down wind at twice the speed of some of the boats in your decision

 

But great racing SSANZ and hope the feddback can be used constructivly

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