That wind angle looks nothing like what I rememeber. We started on port and tight reached to north head. Pretty amazing stuff if we reached straight into the breeze.

Couldnt agree more Clipper - sheesh our red genny goes well uphill if that was the wind angle.

Mr Bull said...


I think 28?m means 280-289deg m not 28deg m

Make more sense now ?

Anyway this thread is going round in circles but some key points being repeated are...
1) Think about the consequences and obligations you place on yourself before positioning for a start.
2) Sometimes enforcing your rights isn't the smartest idea if it compromises your own start (ie tangling up with port tackers who haven't kept clear when you could have avoided them and been sailing up the racetrack instead) BTW this is NOT a excuse for port tackers to be where they shouldn't be.

It's a flying thing, runway numbers for instance drop the last digit. If you see a big 28 painted on on the end of a runway it means it faces 280 degrees thereabouts.

Still to run in on stb at 140 degrees TWA you would need to approach from the course side of the line.

If you wanted to actually arrive at the pin on stb you would have needed to pass infront of the start boat.

Bull has been asked at least twice if that was the case but instead of answering the question he prefers to have a go at everyone else.

Phil - What do you paint on a runway that actually faces 28 degrees then?

03

Umm


What exactly is the problem with approaching from the course side? It is certainly legal unless the one minute rule is in operation. Sure your timing has to be good but whats new? And as soon as the port gybers aim at your stern you can gybe without a problem (i.e. they can't then alter course and claim you gybed in their water...). Typically when the fleet is on port, everyone needs to be a little further apart and fractionally late otherwise you don't have a bail out option.

Not that I favour being the only boat on starboard but in some situations it may be a great option. We get this situation all the time starting off Westhaven and the typical approach is to start on port unless you can cross the line on starboard - keeping a sharp eye for boats with rights coming from below the line on starboard. If you can start on starboard then you line up for the pin on starboard and start calling port gybers early - then gybe to the making gybe asap. Obviously if there are starboard gybers coming at you then you have to back off and let them through - hence the fraction late, bit of space and vigilance requirement...

I have port tacked a fleet more than once on a windward start but it is a high risk, low probability of success option... (did it in a fleet of more than 100 Ps in a Tauranga Cup invitation race about a hundred years ago)

Phils right 280 degrees is known as runway 28 and from the other end it is known as Runway 10. But you must have had a beer in the bush mate, think 03 is one of Ardmores runways?

Sorry all, Phil is corect, the ? in 28? meant 280 something, obviously a moving target, moving in the wind ha ha.

So to be clear, and sorry Infinity I didnt mean to be oblique, I just thought it was bloody obvious,

Wind - Westish (just nort of)
Us - In from Devonportish (Yes 1+ boatlengths to weather of start boat)
Next mark - North Headish (beamish reach)


I am now a jibbering heap in the corner as I must be one of the worlds worst comunicators, cos I thought that was what I said 4 days ago. Either that or they are much to late in introducing National Standards into our schools and the horse has bolted, and only the bottom of the chickens are left?

Anyway, school hols, so off to run through the Theory of Relitivity with my 11 year old. Should be a doddle after this.


Thanks Cameron, nice to see someone is paying attention.

In actual fact we approached the line on stbd from course side. But the small boats starting late showed no signs of evasion or even recognition that we would be mean enough to do such a thing. So we decided to be nice guys and reach up and around behind them. I was in a gentlemanly frame of mind, and Russell on the committee boat and I had time to have a laugh about it.

What does this really mean?

A yellow triangular SSANZ B&G Simrad buoy may be laid as an inner distance mark up to 30 metres from the start boat. Boats shall not pass between the SSANZ B&G Simrad buoy and the start boat.

1. This area should be treated as an obstruction and I should not pass through there under any circumstances.

2. It is OK to pass through here as many times as I like provided I don't do it as I start?

3. It is only OK to pass through here if I am forced to in which case I must return to the none course side (even if that includes passing through here again) and start again.

4. It is OK to pass through here if I am so late for my start that no one will notice.

That buoy is a IDM which is effectively a paintwork/keel saving device. Sure a IDM may have enough actual water for your boat but the mark is intended to mark an area that is a No Go zone, just like a brick or wharf is. It's knot uncommon to have the IDM tethered to the start boat so there is some string waiting for your keel on occasions.

1 - You shouldn't be inside it at any time.
2 - No, that's a big naughty.
3 - Same as one above really. No I definitely would knot return thru there.
4 - If you like being pinged as a dick, cheat and have a good sized repair payable wallet, I suppose that is an option but knot a smart one.

In reality if diving in saves you getting T-Boned and there is water to do so and the RC are reasonable and you don't sink the Start boat, you may get away with it. If you got pushed in there I would knot come back thru there if there is any another option like around the start boat or ODM. The IDM is effectively a safety device so wondering in with no immediate emergency should get you quickly pinged, especially if it is saving the Race Directors own boat from carnage. They can get seriously twitchy

Or that's our take on it. We run the programme of 'Just don't go there' and always treat the area between a IDM and start boat/wharf/whatever as dry land i.e. non-navigable water.

The Travell'n Man's Yacht.
Simrad 1 was a quiet one. I can remember a few very soft starts but not a soft day like that. We had an average start and did manage the genie for a while. A header saw us go to the code 0 and then to the #1. When we saw Rattle head over to North Head we decided to follow but got closed out by some bigger boats and then headed right. Big mistake, but stayed over against the Rangi shore to keep out of the tide. Very sofy once around Rangi light but managed to get around the top with only a couple of tacks. Nice to get the kite up once around and ran down a few boats along the way. Caught and passed Elliott Energy just before the Motuihe green buoy. Gybed and carried the kite for a short while. Changed to the m/head genie which allowed EE through but once hoisted and set we eased away. Lovely shy ride to within a mile of the turn. Back to #1 and gave the rocks plenty of space. Once around we went back to the code 0 and made good time back to the top of Waiheke when we were headed and had to go back to the #1. Hard work to get around Browns light and then back to the M/hd genie for a while. Headed so back to the code 0. Headed so back to #1. etc, etc. All the time watching the clock for the tide turn. We crept up the back of Bastion Reef and got around Bean Rock in good company passing a cluster of boats, including E-Nine! That was our big mistake. When headed we tacked and were just that little bit greedy. The tide caught us and we were going back the way we had started. The rest as they say is history and after battling with a number of changes with the code 0 and the #1 we finally crossed the line behind Lightfoot and Bump and Grind. About 2.00AM we noticed that our battery took a dive and when we finished the race was only at 7.5volts. Always seems to be something to replace or repair.
Quite testing mentally. It’s much easier when you’re actually sailing efficiently.

I missed this one. Sounds like fun.

Approaching the line from the course side on starboard in light winds could be pretty risky in itself.

If you arrive at the line early, you also become another one of the port tackers before the gun. But if you don't quite make it to the correct side of the line before the gun goes - you're really in the poo.

If everyone tries this at once, half the fleet will get over the line and gybe onto port and end up with rights over the other half who are stuck on the wrong side of the line and still on starboard. Are you sure this is safer than gentlemanly agreement to approach the line on port from the correct side?

Maybe it is a good way to use the rules to get a jump on the fleet if you get it right, but it's not a sensible way for the whole fleet to get away to a safe, clean, start in what is essentially an endurance race.

Maybe in large fleets of 2-handed sailing it would make sense to have the 1-minute rule in effect and not allow dip starts.