Addem 95 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I went to the scrap yard yesterday to pick up some lead and was told that they can no longer sell lead to the public. It's another H&S thing, being a poison. I'm sure that this statement alone will raise the temperature of a few of you and bring out the N word, (as it did me, since I used to cast lead objects for fun when I was wee small and didn't know it could kill me). But what I really want to know is where can I get some lead from? I need about 3kg (around 300ml) for repairs to my keel bulb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 400 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Scrap lead not such a good idea, the balance of tin, antimony etc has to be right under water. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 512 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 When I was a kid we holidayed at Martins Bay with a group of families that owned small runabouts. One day while out fishing off challenger one of the group snagged something with their anchor. No amount of lifting by the combined gang could retrieve it but it was towable and that we did, into the little bay to the north of Bostoque Bay Kawau. In the shallows we could see it was a 100metre length of undersea cable offcut. Steel core wrapped in lead. That night back at the bay the adults hatched a plan to salvage the lead. The next day we went to the bay, hauled and coiled the cable onto the beach and lit a fire (below the high tide mark). The lead melted into channels scooped in the sand and once each line was about a metre we threw a bucket of water over it and dragged it into the water to cool. We all took as much as each little fizz boat could carry but most of the cable remained on the beach. Might still be there. To this day we refer to the bay as "Cable Bay" The ingots lived in our shed at home for many years. Dad would cast sinkers from it. When I built my Stratus 747 the led keel had a bulge in the side from casting and I removed it with a hired electric plane. My mum flipped her lid that the shavings were hitting the house 30 metres away. How times have changed. I'm looking at a RC yacht from Canada and in the splurge it says Cast lead ballast keel. (Lead encapsulated in epoxy and primed, no direct contact with the lead) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Could you use some weight belt weights? If so a dive shop would be good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Povnation 3 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Look on trade me for cheap dive weight belts. I managed to pick one up with 12kg on it for less than $30. Dive shops charge $20/kilo for their lead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armchairadmiral 411 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Thank goodness someone is at last trying to save me from myself. Collected lead pipes from house renovations and melted it down into ingots in the incinerator .Over a ton (2240 lb ton) AND I'm still here.We also poured many keels out of bathtubs with fires underneath and a keg beside that. This Health / Safety thing is way out of control ! But control over the population is alive and well !!!! Now its lead nazis 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Seems I now know what ails a few posters on this forum. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armchairadmiral 411 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 No Kevin it was what aled me and I survived that too !!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Addem, there are some Lead Billets on trademe right now. In the Industrial part.I think the scrap dealer is talking rubbish. There are a lot of things a heck of a lot more Hazardous and toxic than lead that can be bought from a seller. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 95 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 From Woodenboat.com: "Keels don't want to be pure lead (tensile strength 1160 psi). It want's to be allowed with a few percent antimony to harden it up (3% alloy has tensile strength of some 4700 psi; 5% alloy has a tensile stength of some 6360 psi).Adding tin to lead makes (according to wikipedia) the molten metal more fluid and the resulting alloy more tough with greater resistance to wear.Lead tire weights are alloyed with antimony. Stuff like like old lead pipe, lead roof flashing, old X-ray shielding, etc. is likely pure lead. Bullets tend to be alloyed with maybe 2% tin and up to 8% antimony. Old printing type metal might vary from 3-18% tin and from 11-28% antimony. Linotype metal is 3% tin, 11% antimony with the remainder lead." So I've picked up about 20Kg of wheel weights for free and will melt down a few and see how they turn out. be interested to know if anyone has tried this? I figure that at worst I'll have to toss 20Kg in the rubbish (unless I also end up with a serious case of poisoning.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I've worked with Lead a lot and never hadddddddd any ppppppproblems.In fact, when I first got really sick with my allergy problem, Lead was the first thing they tested me for, because I was TV servicing at the time and working with Solder. I had never thought of lead being picked up through my skin. In fact, on the odd occasion I might need a second hand and held the Solder in my mouth. Never sucked on it of course, but in hind sight, it was probably still silly to do. But I tested fine anyway.I have handled lead lots of times, just made sure I washed them immediately after. Melted lead for sinkers lots of times and never had a problem. In saying that, you still take precautions. Like wear some gloves and make sure you don't breath fumes when it is melting. Wear eye protection and some decent Cotton or Wool clothing that will not melt like Polyester cloth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BMW56 12 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 When I worked at the hospital we used to buy lead for radiation shielding from these guys: http://www.dlm.co.nz/index.html Looks like they have a good range of products including sacrificial anodes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 380 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Metallic lead is not terribly toxic. It's not readily bioavailable and penetrates biological membranes poorly (unless accelerated by gunpowder). Long term direct contact (occupational) of bare lead on your skin might cause some issues as acidic residues and exudates from your skin might liberate some of the metal and increase it's availability. but we're talkign constant exposure here. Lead vapour can be a problem (solder, casting etc.). Just like mercury vapour. Metals that melt at a low temperature also usually boil at a low temperature and that vapour is best not inhaled. Lead salts can be relatively poor for your health, i.e. the lead that used to be found in paint as a drying agent. often lead salts taste sweet (like lead acetate = lead lined Roman wine casks = tastes better = rich people could afford better tasting wine = crazy ruling class Romans = downfall of Roman empire). Apparently paint chips can taste sweet... And organometalics, such as tera-ethyl-lead (i.e. the lead in petrol) can be nasty, because they readily cross biological membranes. A lack of education and true understanding leads to a general fear of things like this. The general fear creeps into policy. and then we get rules based on feelings rather than facts. Similar irrational unscientific fears inform the anti fluoride group who often confuse the fluoride ion (F-) with fluorine the corrosive gas. I'd ask the scrappies what legislation was enacted that prevents them selling Pb. This sort of crap needs to be repealed. Pretty soon you won't be allowed to use copper water pipes... The only possible validity that I can think of for such a rule could be if there is concern that the lead being recycled might pose a health risk due to unknown prior contact with a chemical that might increase it's bioavailability. In that case, lead wastepipes might be excluded, but lead flashings and roofing sheet should remain available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 648 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 How many of us oldies(over 50) had lead painted cots lead solders etc melted lead for sinkers model boat keels etc and no effects probably safe as we had our lifejackets on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 95 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Dr W the bloke said it was company policy, not regulation. When dealing with the staff on the floor no amount of logic or argument will turn them from their position. Anyway, I rendered down a whole heap of wheel balancing weights and the job is done. Great way to spend a rainy Saturday morning. I suspect there is a high level of zinc in the finished product which may leach out but it's not structural and quite small so as to not go over the protection levels discussed elsewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Crystal Glass is another one. Lead is used because it acts as a refractor of light and gives glass a "sparkle". But the Alcohol being acidic, dissolves molecules of lead out of the Glass and thus it gets ingested. It is real bad to keep alcohol in Crystal glass for anymore than a couple of days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Acid-base chemistry. Ethanol's hydroxyl group causes the molecule to be slightly basic. It is almost neutral like water. The pH of 100% ethanol is 7.33, compared to 7.00 for pure water. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 380 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Kevin, you should reference when you pull stuff straight off a website: http://www.jjstech.com/ethanolc2h5oh.html If you'd looked further down your google search you'd have read that the situation is not so simple.But there's an interesting thing about pH. You need an aqueous solution for pH to mean anything. It's like saying the pH of air is blah. pH is the log of the hydrogen ion concentration [H+] in aqueous solution. If you define or determine it in some other solvent (e.g. DMSO) you need to qualify it. If there's no H2O present (i.e. 100% EtOH), how is CH3CH2OH going to liberate an OH- to create any level of alkalinity? The oxygen has a couple pairs of electrons to share, its quite the nucleophile, it's going to hold on to that carbon like a barnacle on KM's butt. It'll prefer to let go of the proton (KM's undies) before it relaxes it's grip on that carbon... So it can go either way if you add some water. It can borrow an H+ from water and create a few extra OH- or it can donate a proton CH3CH2OH + H2O CH3CH2O- + H3O+ making it an acid. pKa of Ethanol is about 15.9 (varies a little with T), pKa of water is nominally 14, but depending on T and a bunch of other factors might be 15.7. As you mix EtOH with water the pH will change. Either way, we're talking about an effect which is basically meaningless in the real world because CO2 dissolved from the air will start making thing more acidic, or other ions in the water will likely have a stronger effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Alcohols are a very "interesting" Chemical. It's easy to make a mistake with this Kev. Doc, correct me if I am wrong, but it is the only compound I know of that can be classified as both an Alkaline and an Acid, depending on what it is added to.Under the "descriptions" of identifying Acids, the normal list is acids. a substance with particular chemical properties including turning litmus red, neutralizing alkalis, and dissolving some metals; typically, a corrosive or sour-tasting liquid of this kind. In Chemistry: a molecule or other species which can donate a proton or accept an electron pair in reactions. Having a pH of less than 7.However, Alcohol breaks that last rule of thumb...as you noted with the number 7.33 Lead actually dissolves in Alcohol. In fact, Acetic Acid and Lead produces the Salt, Lead Acetate. Lead Acetate tastes as sweet as sugar.... (I will take their word for it)....and was called Sugar of Lead by the Romans whom used it as a sweetener and they produced a syrup called sapa by boiling down mildly fermented grape juice in kettles made from lead alloys. It also likely killed bacteria and thus was a preservative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Thanks all for info on chemistry of alcohol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.