Call for Licensing

[Crazyhorse 47]

Be careful what you wish for.. it’s a slippery slope. First rego numbers and then it will be WoFs and so on. I can’t believe how many are wanting some sort of rego/licensing system!

 

I would much rather a few speeding fizz boats and jet skis than a heap of ‘enforcement boats’ poking there nose in to every bay handing out fines for ‘non compliance’.

Trouble is, its not just a "few speeding fizz boats". Beccara is right, its bedlam! As our population grows (rapidly) more and more uneducated fools or worse those that simply don't give a sh!t ruin whatever peace you once valued in sailing have more money than sense put your life in danger and no one is there to stop them, you will welcome some kind of enforcement. At the moment we have none! If its only your life at stake then so be it but if your "non compliance" is a hazard to those aboard your vessel then I'm all for fines and more.

[Beccara 25]

I see better respect for the rules and other boats from Jetski's coming up to the town basin than I do any power boat coming up there. Jet Ski's are slow and minimize their wake, Multiple fizz's and tinnies blast up and down generating a decent wake at all hours. Someone blasts past at 11pm every few weeks

[Crazyhorse 47]

I hear you Beccara but I think regos etc would add a huge cost, penalise the 99% that aren’t a problem and achieve bugger all. It would then lead on to more and more regulations and loss of freedoms.

 

Surely education is the key. I bet most of these guys that tick up a jet ski to tow behind their ticked up double cab don’t come from boating families and wouldn’t know their port from starboard and also have no clue that your not supposed to do 40kts right up to the beach because of the risk to swimmers etc

Having to sit an exam to get a licence. Problem solved.

[DrWatson 372]

Every time somebody thinks something needs fixing, they leap for a new law or regulation instead of enforcing what already exists. The list of laws/regs in our society keeps growing but without enforcement, they're meaningless anyway. Start with education and some peer pressure doesn't hurt either and then enforce what currently exists. If after all that is done properly and a problem still exists then find a way to target that problem with a new reg/law without adding unnecessary sweeping laws impacting all.

 

This^

 

Laws and rules that are not enforced lose legitimacy. 

And rules that are not enforced are only adhered to by those that feel a moral or societal obligation to do so - so it's likely that without enforcement, any new laws will likely only affect those who already adhere to the current rules and will be disregarded by the very individuals whose behaviour the new rule seeks to change. 

 

I feel that the analogy to car driver licensing does not hold as the laws around driving a car are rigorously and vigorously enforced. The have legitimacy in society.

 

The current laws for boating are more than adequate, and my opinion is that a little enforcement of things like speeding and right-of-way would go a long way toward improving everybody's appreciation of the current laws and spur greater adherence to them.

 

More laws (i.e. having to have a license) on top of unenforced laws will only push law abiding citizens to abandon boat based activities. We have enough hurdles to participation as it is.

 

For those who are considering a fizz nasty license, i.e. a license that affects olyl a portion of boat users, how will you define "fizz nasty"?

 

Something like "Vessel designed to, or capable of, attaining sustained speed of greater than 8knts under the force of its motor(s)" ?

 

- I'm genuinely interested how we would define this.

[Black Panther 1,579]

I agree with the good doctor.

 

And another thought on licensing. Say $250 per annum for your boat. Then $250 per annum for your dinghy (what? You have more than one?). And if you go offshore $1200 to MNZ. See how it works?

[armchairadmiral 411]

Be careful what you wish for....you just might get it. Don't want Oz rules here (plus fees). Enforcement won't change much either. The galahs will still perform just like they do on the roads. Just get on with your sailing and ignore the dickheads .It's the most pragmatic solution .

[Black Panther 1,579]

Bloody hell. I agree with the admiral. I think that's twice now.

[harrytom 641]

Just present a shotgun when the dickheads get close,they soon go away

[Priscilla II 387]

2.14 Vessels to be identified by law

Powerboats 4m and over and non-powered boats 6m and over 
- These boats must display a name or similar identifying mark, such as a radio call sign, coastguard membership number, or trailer registration. 
Identification must be: 
- A minimum of two letters or numbers, displayed on both sides of the hull, and above the waterline. 
- At least 90mm high (all characters must be at least 90mm high), and legible at a distance of no less than 50 metres. 
 

[Beccara 25]

Auckland only isn't it?

[Crazyhorse 47]

Auckland only isn't it?

Yep.

[dutyfree 170]

So as an example of why enforcement should be increased first I give you Westhaven Marina.  There is as you will know a 5 knot speed limit.  In addition it is a no wake zone.  So I asked the Marina to follow up with some boats about speeding and whether they could have a bit of a blitz/flyers etc.  Their response was that it was up to the Harbour Master and they had no powers.

 

Now this is patently untrue and shows they cant be bothered enforcing their own marina rules.  There is a section in the website that states:

 

• Boat owners must moor their vessel at their berth and manoeuver so as to avoid creating a danger, obstacle or inconvenience to other users or obstructing public rights of navigation.
• Westhaven Marina is a no wake zone. Your wake can stop others from enjoying the use of their boat – whether dining, doing maintenance, or relaxing. Wakes also contribute to maintenance issues. Please don’t be offended if our team asks you to slow down. The speed limit in the Marina is 5 knots – but the slower you go, the better.

 

In addition that section of the Website forms part of the contract.

 

So Westhaven appears very dedicated to enforcing parking as that produces income, but does not even understand its own rules when it comes to wakes.  As a consequence you can pretty much get around at any speed as long as you are not on the plane!

[Crazyhorse 47]

So as an example of why enforcement should be increased first I give you Westhaven Marina.  There is as you will know a 5 knot speed limit.  In addition it is a no wake zone.  So I asked the Marina to follow up with some boats about speeding and whether they could have a bit of a blitz/flyers etc.  Their response was that it was up to the Harbour Master and they had no powers.

 

Now this is patently untrue and shows they cant be bothered enforcing their own marina rules.  There is a section in the website that states:

 

 

 

• Boat owners must moor their vessel at their berth and manoeuver so as to avoid creating a danger, obstacle or inconvenience to other users or obstructing public rights of navigation.
• Westhaven Marina is a no wake zone. Your wake can stop others from enjoying the use of their boat – whether dining, doing maintenance, or relaxing. Wakes also contribute to maintenance issues. Please don’t be offended if our team asks you to slow down. The speed limit in the Marina is 5 knots – but the slower you go, the better.

 

In addition that section of the Website forms part of the contract.

 

So Westhaven appears very dedicated to enforcing parking as that produces income, but does not even understand its own rules when it comes to wakes.  As a consequence you can pretty much get around at any speed as long as you are not on the plane!

Westhaven has to be a "statutory authority" to bring anything other than civil action against offenders even if its private property. Civil actions can only succeed if there is a request for damages so they are right to say there is nothing (legal) they can do other than refer the matter to the police of council. IT doesn't stop them from seeking and issuing trespass notices as the area managers. Probably a way to deal with repeat offenders?

Of interest, you say they enforce parking to produce "income" so I am assuming people get parking infringement notices? Are these issued by the marina itself?

[vic008 17]

Personally I prefer all traffic to pass close as to me rather than distance off. Close means their wash all over in 10sec as against the rock and rolling for ages when they are further off. Try it and see for yourself.

[KJT 1]

For the amount of hassle and costs involved, compared with the reduction in an, already minimal, number of accidents,, licensing is not worth it.

 

BTW. The most stupid thing, affecting me recently was a boatload of MNZ staff, insisting on going under a bridge up tide, when I was going down stream with limited power, maneuverability and space.

 

Enforcing some of the worst examples of breaches of existing rules, could help. Most boaties are sensible. What I see, mostly, apart from the speeding powerboats, are mistakes, not inattention or disregard.

 

Wannabees wanting more power, and things to do, seem to be driving the call for licensing.

 

Coastguard courses and other education, is making a difference.

 

Licensing, as Australia and the USA, has shown, makes little difference, while adding hassle and cost.

 

[dutyfree 170]

Hi Crazyhprse.  To berth in Westhaven you have to agree to abide by their Terms and Conditions.  Their Terms include the section I have quoted via a clause that includes aspects of their website.  If you don't comply then you run the risk of having your agreement terminated.  Westhaven therefore has a legal right to to undertake actions up to and including termination of the agreement.

 

Now I am not asking that hey do that, I am merely asking that they actively ensure people are abiding by the very terms of their agreement.  No point having it if they will not enforce it.

 

As to parking, I am sure you are aware that the Marina belongs to the Council.  The parking is private, in that it is Marina land.  As such they can enforce whatever parking rules they desire as per their published parking rules.  They outsource that.

 

So they do not need to be a statutory body to enforce the legal agreements that they have with berth holders.  They do not need to take a civil case.

[Crazyhorse 47]

Jet Ski's are under 4m in length so that law does not apply anywhere in NZ.Radio call sign and coast guard membership number displayed, applicable to which classification? Commercial and Rec? If Rec how many private yachts racers or cruisers, PVT Fizz boats comply to that reg you have quoted?

Jetskis are mentioned in a separate clause

[Crazyhorse 47]

Hi Crazyhprse.  To berth in Westhaven you have to agree to abide by their Terms and Conditions.  Their Terms include the section I have quoted via a clause that includes aspects of their website.  If you don't comply then you run the risk of having your agreement terminated.  Westhaven therefore has a legal right to to undertake actions up to and including termination of the agreement.

 

Yes that would apply as you have entered into a contract but I thought we were talking the general public who they have only one course of action, trespass notices.

 

Now I am not asking that hey do that, I am merely asking that they actively ensure people are abiding by the very terms of their agreement.  No point having it if they will not enforce it.

 

As to parking, I am sure you are aware that the Marina belongs to the Council.  The parking is private, in that it is Marina land.  As such they can enforce whatever parking rules they desire as per their published parking rules.  They outsource that.

 

AC parking inspectors and police would be able to enforce that as it would come under the bylaws of ACC The marina staff wouldn't.

 

 

So they do not need to be a statutory body to enforce the legal agreements that they have with berth holders.  They do not need to take a civil case.

As above but "Joe Blogs" has no such agreement and can only be asked to leave.

[harrytom 641]

Security are quick enough to jump when having a cruise around showing visitors the marina from a vessel.

[dutyfree 170]

Thank you Crazyhorse and Rehab..  They dont need Police or AC parking people.  It is private land (just happens to be the Council) and they set the rules for parking.

 

Yes Rehab I have raised it with the Marina and I already stated what they told me.  If they don't know their own Terms and Conditions they should find another job, it is their contract with the 1000+ boat owners.

 

This is not about the Marina. this is another example of why people who think an extra rule or law will fix the last rule/law that is being ignored need to get their heads read.  If people see no enforcement or education then why would they change their behavior?  I already display the appropriate sized name on my boat, prominently in three locations.  What will a license do?