YNZ Race Regulations Cat1-Cat5; Anomalies and concerns

[harrytom 697]

Can some one please point out the use of a fog horn,if in dense fog very hard to direct what direction  it is coming from.So you have a fleet of 15 vessels all horning away at 1 long/2 short every 2 minutes.Utter confusion.     As per international collision regs 22.35 yet nothing YNZ apart from carrying a horn??

[Island Time 1,294]

Ynz cannot override the colregs. In fog, you must proceed at a safe speed. If you cannot see at all, and have no radar, and can hear fog signals, stop until you are sure you are safe.

Same horn is used for manoeuvring, or the WTF signal (5 short).

[Cantab 341]

7 hours ago, Island Time said:

Ynz cannot override the colregs.

Yes they can. it is explicitly says so in the NZ Rules. You must follow the NZ Rules with respect to vessels not racing but if you are racing under theRRS the "coregs" to use your term do not apply unless the SI say so.

Nothing in this Part applies to a vessel participating in a race or training or coaching in relation to other vessels participating in such an activity, if the participants have agreed to comply with the International Sailing Federation Rules, prescribed by the International Sailing Federation.

 

https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/rules/part-22/Part22-maritime-rule.pdf

[Island Time 1,294]

OK,  lets look into that: 

Yes the RRS (Racing rules of sailing ) does give some exceptions - passing close at more than 5 knots etc etc. However, there are fundamentals that it cannot change. FOG and restricted visibility is one. You will find this in the RRS;

48. FOG SIGNALS AND LIGHTS; TRAFFIC SEPARATION SCHEMES

48.1.

When safety requires, a boat shall sound fog signals and show lights as required by the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or applicable government rules.

 

So you are still governed by the colregs  (not my term, Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (COLREGs), in fog. 

 

You MUST sound fog signals, and stop completely if needed, in fog, even when racing.

[Jon 412]

SSANZ Sailing Instructions always state Colregs apply between sunset and sunrise 

biggest  change is RRS allow you to push a boat up and windward boat must keep clear where as colregs are all about overtaking vessel keeps clear and passing port to port etc

over simplified but  quite different 

[Island Time 1,294]

The windward yacht gives way is part of the colregs Jon, rule 12.

Rule 12 (Sailing vessels)

 

(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:

(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;

(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;

(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on her port or starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

 

The overtaking vessel though is completely different in the RRS and colregs...

[Cantab 341]

10 hours ago, Jon said:

colregs are all about overtaking vessel keeps clear and passing port to port etc

Port to port doesn't apply between sailing vessels, often misunderstood, likewise turning to starboard to avoid collision.

The responses required of power driven vessels are different from that of sailing yachts, worth a read if your not to up with the rules, most of the time you are sailing it will be under the Collision Prevention Rules, quoting the RRS to your insurance company isn't going to help if you weren't racing.

There are a couple of upticks in this thread to statements that are not technically correct, good indication of lack of understanding.

[Island Time 1,294]

BOIG then point them out. Its a learning opportunity for all....

[harrytom 697]

Whether racing or cruising the collision rules will always over ride YNZ or any other local rules,including local bylaws from harbour master.Just where you find the harbour master rules remains a mystery.Use to be posted at various ramps,wharfs and seem to recall them at Westhaven.

[Cantab 341]

 

35 minutes ago, harrytom said:

Whether racing or cruising the collision rules will always over ride YNZ

HT, your just plain wrong, read the rules. I have already given you the clause and the link. Its what makes racing under RRS legal in NZ.

IT,  I already pointed out your technical error, HT seems to have missed it.

[Island Time 1,294]

BOIG, OK, I could have presented that better, but the gist and the actual law is the same - the RRS do have some specific exceptions to the colregs, for example the proximity/speed rules, but there are parts they have to have, incl the Fog/restricted visibility rules, which are  required by IMO, to which NZ is a signatory.

I provided the link above to the RRS that show the restricted visibility section points directly back to the colregs.

HT, sorry as BOIG says above, your statement is not correct. Local bylaws can and do alter the colregs.

Its the skippers responsibility to know the rules..... 

 

[harrytom 697]

Risk of collision ynz

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-10/YNZ Safety Regulations of Sailing 17-20 (Final) (small).pdf

2.0 SKIPPER’S (MASTER’S) RESPONSIBILITY, CREW RESPONSIBILITY

 

2.2 The Maritime Transport Act 1994 states that the master of the vessel is at all times responsible for the safety of the vessel, the safety of those on board, discipline on board and for complying with all maritime rules, regulations and bylaws. 2.3 Neither the establishment of these Safety Regulations, their use by Organising Authorities, nor the inspection of a yacht under these Regulations in any way limits or reduces the complete and unlimited responsibility of the skipper.

 

I take it from YNZ that in a situation where collision is enimate(port/starbord/luffing etc)if the give way vessels then the obligation is on the vessel who has rights to give way to avoid a collision then take action by form of protest.

 

I still claim a non racing vessel meets a racing vessel collision reg apply.

 

[Island Time 1,294]

That is absolutely true HT. The RRS is only for vessels racing. But for them, it gives some alterations to colregs... So the RRS DO override/alter the colregs in specific circumstances.

If you are racing, RRS apply to your vessel relating to others involved in the race,  colregs for every other vessel.

[ex Elly 265]

All boats must slow down to 5 knots if they want to come within 50m of another vessel.

RRS are what allows racing yachts to exceed 5 knots within 50m. In this case RRS overrides colregs.

Harrytoms last post is quoting from the YNZ Safety rules.  These have no bearing on right of way.

 

[Cantab 341]

Hears some stuff to think about, quickly done so I stand to be corrected, in each case I believe there are subtle differences as to who is initially meant to do what, some are similar to the extent the actions are the same but some are quite different. Granted by the stage collision is imminent both are required to avoid collision, untill then its not quite so simple.

1. Two Motor Vessels on collision Course Head on
2. Two Motor Vessels on collision Course 90 deg to each other
3. Two yachts racing on head on collision course, i.e. 180deg to each other. Windward boat on Starboard.
4. Two yachts racing on head on collision course, i.e. 180deg to each other. Windward boat on Port.
5. Two yachts racing on collision course on same tack, one beating the other going down wind, beating boat on Port
6. Two yachts racing on collision course on same tack, one beating the other going down wind, beating boat on Starboard.
7. Two yachts not racing, on collision course, one is motor sailing, in all the above situations...
8. Two yachts one is racing, one not racing, on collision course....

[Island Time 1,294]

40 minutes ago, ex Elly said:

All boats must slow down to 5 knots if they want to come within 50m of another vessel.

RRS are what allows racing yachts to exceed 5 knots within 50m. In this case RRS overrides colregs.

Harrytoms last post is quoting from the YNZ Safety rules.  These have no bearing on right of way.

 

To be pedantic, there is no "right of way" there is simply the burdened and stand on vessel....

[harrytom 697]

1 hour ago, ex Elly said:

All boats must slow down to 5 knots if they want to come within 50m of another vessel.

RRS are what allows racing yachts to exceed 5 knots within 50m. In this case RRS overrides colregs.

Harrytoms last post is quoting from the YNZ Safety rules.  These have no bearing on right of way.

 

But does the RRS exempt a vessel racing to pass a non racing vessel closer than 50m at more than 5knots?? NO the RRs is over ridden by collision regs

 

Been out fishing and due to wind change has put us in line for the a race fleet,have had to yell out Anchored. Been in the opposite and made room around those anchored.It call courtesy.Which we all need to play apart.

[Deep Purple 530]

Bingo, found a classification that seems to do it all. Sport Trailer Yacht under Part V, not to be confused with the Sportboat Part VI

4.2 Only 1.05 headroom needed (I don't meet the keelboat requirement) and bunks only have to be capable of being fitted, not actually there.

4.3 Doesn't have to be NZTYA approved

7.09 Waterproof covers instead of washboards okay

17.17 (b) Lifelines minimum of 250mm above deck. Optional anyway but I have a plan and this fits

9.01 Ladder required, no problem, I have one

9.02 Names on equipment - obviously

9.03 Number and name on side of hull

9.04 Adequate tool kit, no mention of hacksaw blades

9.05 Boathook - Recommended only but I have one.

9.06 Towline

9.07 Anchor and warp

9.08 Bilge pump and ONE bucket

9.09 Torch (recommended but why wouldn't you?)

9.10 Foghorn

9.11 First aid kit

10.1 Compass (marine type only, doesn't have to be installed. IMO a large bulkhead style compass is essential for racing anyway)

10.2 Charts

10.3 Nav lights - Nothing about permanent or wiring

11.1 VHF

11.4 ONE fire extinguisher

11.5 Sails capable of going to windward in 40knots.

12.1 Lifejackets

12.2 Horseshoe ring, drogue light and whistle

12.3 Safety harness - Recommended only but SSANZ NOR overrides and makes compulsory

12.4 Distress Flares including flag. Parachute flares which is a mistake

12.5 Knife

12.6 Epirb - Recommended only but SSANZ NOR overrides and makes compulsory

13.0 Outboard recommended only

NO mention of jackstays but SSANZ NOR requires and i have them anyway.

No mention of a heaving line but I have one and will carry it. Would probably qualify as the tow line anyway

I think i'm good to go, just need the boat

 

 

 

 

[ex Elly 265]

Well spotted Deep Purple. Your research has paid off!

 

[Deep Purple 530]

And no echo sounder