YNZ Race Regulations Cat1-Cat5; Anomalies and concerns

[Cantab 341]

Here's the link to the WS OSR,

https://www.sailing.org/documents/offshorespecialregs/index.php

Here's the bit about Mainsails (edited)

Cat 3 either a storm trysail as defined in OSR 4.26.2 d), or mainsail reefing to reduce
the luff by at least 40% (or rotating wing mast if suitable)
Cat 4 either mainsail reefing to reduce the luff by 12.5% or a heavy-weather jib as
defined in 4.26.2 a) (or heavy-weather sail in a boat with no forestay)

NZ Version Cat 3 and 4

Mainsails shall have a set of reef points capable              X X R
of reducing the effective luff by 50 percent.

The rest of the WS regs are pretty easy to read and makes sense too.

How YNZ managed to take the well written document from WS and come up with what they have boggles the mind, could be an indication of their general operational ability?

The sooner they admit they fucked up and sort it out the better, otherwise pretty much every race you do the organiser needs to apply to YNZ for special dispensation to change the safety rules. Or face a tidalwave of protests against all those pesky little trailer sailors and sports boats?

WS expects you to have a toilet too.

[Deep Purple 530]

Okay, a more in-depth look

Race Category Three

• Used to say - Races across open water, most of which is relatively protected or close to shorelines  and not rounding major capes
• Now says - Races across open water, most of which is relatively protected or close to shorelines.

I think nobody could define a major cape

 

13.14

• ADDED (M) Two manual bilge pumps either fixed or portable - Cat 3,4,5

15 (b) (e)

• for Cat4 all boats now have to have 50% mainsail luff reef, was recommended. 

  Trailer Yachts - Suitable sails capable of taking the yacht to windward in winds of 40 knots shall be carried - No change

16.3

• Toilet or fitted bucket no longer needed for Cat3/4/5

16.13

• At least one securely-installed water tank no longer required for Cat 3 and 4
• Suitable containers for water added to Cat3

Fire Extinguisher Confusion

17.01 Fire Extinguishers, at least three          X X

17.02 Fire Extinguishers, at least two                    X X X

is now

 

17.01 Fire Extinguishers, at least three         X X X

17.02 Fire Extinguishers, at least two                  X X X

 

17.4

• Fire blanket readily accessible to galley. Miss-printed but presumed unchanged

17.17

• The minimum diameter lifeline wire shall be: X X X R R
• Is Now
• The minimum diameter lifeline wire shall be: X X X X X

However Lifelines are still just recommended for Cat 4 and 5 under 17.24

18.2 (ii) (K)

• Handheld waterproof marine multichannel VHF radio now required for all categories (previously R for Cat5) for Both Keelers and Multihulls

18.7

 

• Used to say - Flares must not be more than 3 years old as indicated by the expiry date.
• Now Says - Flares on the vessel must be within the expiry date at all times. 
• Trailer Yachts say - Flares outside their expiry date are nor permitted

19.03

• (a) Tide tables now required for all Categories. Strangely used to exclude Cat3
• (f) Operating instructions & manuals for navigation aids carried now includes Cat5

19 (4) (3)

• Echo (Depth) Sounder or Lead Line Cat4/5

 

I can't see any changes to Trailer Yacht Regulations - No surprise there

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ex Machina 390]

Happy about the Cat3 changes to bilge pumps with portable being allowed . also the water tank and toilet bucket ...have room for a toilet bucket but it would be folly to try and use it .

[Fish 0]

Whhhhaaaattttt????

Cat 4 Mainsail reefs to 50%, I've just received a new mainsail, and I got written confirmation that the reefing requirements were not changing. The written confirmation was from the head YNZ inspector. This was only a few months ago. I will check my dates.

And, aside from the poor info, wtf does a cat 4 boat need a 50% reef for?

[Fish 0]

Where are you guys getting this information? the YNZ website says the new regs wont be available to january 2021 (electronically, or in print)?

[Cantab 341]

Looks like they have taken down the link, that could be a good thing.

Needs a massive revision to make it coherent, let alone sensible.

Hard to believe thats going to happen over Christmas.

[Clipper 375]

I suspect the sail requirements are for new sails aren't they?

 They always grandfathered in existing setups. for example the orange storm jibs.  Old storm jibs didnt need the colour, new ones did.  Mine has orange corners, new ones fully orange?

So if you have a 40% reef point, you dont need to go and move it for the new reg to 50%, but if you build a new sail this year, you better line up...

I don/t think I agree necessarily, as the head of a well reefed main should prob line up with some sort of mast support, mid panel prob not ideal.

 

[Cantab 341]

 

5 minutes ago, Clipper said:

I suspect the sail requirements are for new sails aren't they?

I would suspect that they actually made a mistake, the OSR regs. are a pretty good guide to what will be I hope.

The rules on sails were due a change as they didn't make sense and were poorly written. (as were a lot of other rules)

[Fish 0]

Sounds like some sort of internal f*ck up going on.

On the 16th Sept Angus wrote to me "The 35% reef is in lieu of the try sail so if you have a try sail you don't need such a deep reef. No change to the rules scheduled. Cheers Angus".

The question I asked was specific to changes for mainsail requirements for Cat 3 in the next addition of the regs.

[Deep Purple 530]

2 hours ago, BOIGuy said:

Looks like they have taken down the link, that could be a good thing.

Needs a massive revision to make it coherent, let alone sensible

Yeah funny that. I wonder if our comments are the cause

[Deep Purple 530]

2 hours ago, Fish said:

Where are you guys getting this information? the YNZ website says the new regs wont be available to january 2021 (electronically, or in print)?

I saved a copy if you want it. I just spent hours over the weekend making a cat5,4,4+ checklist for our club and sent out so I'm pretty miffed if there are significant changes. I didn't put the 50% reef in as that would rule out most of the fleet and I was sure it would be amended

[Fish 0]

Thanks for the offer DP, but I'll wait until YNZ sort their sh*t out.

It was more my alarm that a rule was changed (the 50% reef) after I'd explicitly clarified that with the head inspector. If the new rules have been withdrawn from the website, I'd hope they are going to be re-amended before they are formally adopted in 9 days time...

[Cantab 341]

36 minutes ago, Fish said:

'd hope they are going to be re-amended before they are formally adopted in 9 days time...

It's taken 2 years to get it this far

[Fish 0]

31 minutes ago, BOIGuy said:

It's taken 2 years to get it this far

Apparently David Abercrombie has cancelled his Christmas Holiday and is going to personally sort our the safety regulations, so that there are no issues with people knowing the requirements for BoI Sailing Week... 

[Deep Purple 530]

On the bright side, other boats can't protest under rule17 and I'm sure the race committee don't want to open that can of worms

[Cantab 341]

Here is the OSR for Anchors, Cat 1,2,3. Nice and simple isn't it, lesson to be learned there YNZ

2 un-modified anchors that meet the anchor manufacturer’s recommendation
based on the boat’s dimensions with suitable combination of chain and rope,
ready for immediate assembly, and ready for deployment within 5 minutes
except that for a boat less than 8.5 m (28’) LH there shall be 1 anchor
meeting the same criteria.

 

Remember this bit, need we say more?

The Maritime Transport Act 1994 states that the master of the vessel is
at all times responsible for the safety of the vessel, the safety of those
on board, discipline on board and for complying with all maritime
rules, regulations and bylaws.

[Cantab 341]

And this bit really makes it interesting:

"These regulations do not replace, but rather supplement the
requirements of Maritime New Zealand and the World Sailing and ORC
safety requirements for racing yachts."

So why the hell have we got this whole book of rules when you actually have to follow the WS OSR any way?

When the NZ regs are different to the OSR which one takes precedent?

When something is in the OSR and not in the NZ regs do fail your inspection if you don't meet the OSR?

It would be quite a laugh if it weren't so serious, its about saving peoples lives.

At what point does MNZ need to step in and get YNZ to get their sh*t together?

[harrytom 697]

One would presume that MNZ overrides YNZ in the event of a mishap YNZ couldnt prosecute you but can exclude your entry etc But MNZ could prosecute.

Probably need a test case as to the legality of YNZ to up hold or supplement safety gear.

[marinheiro 365]

On 4/01/2021 at 4:52 AM, harrytom said:

One would presume that MNZ overrides YNZ in the event of a mishap YNZ couldnt prosecute you but can exclude your entry etc But MNZ could prosecute.

Probably need a test case as to the legality of YNZ to up hold or supplement safety gear.

interesting to read the inspectors undertake their duties on behalf of MNZ, not YNZ(who just appoint them)

YNZ is not a government body, hence they have no authority to prosecute 

[harrytom 697]

5 hours ago, marinheiro said:

interesting to read the inspectors undertake their duties on behalf of MNZ, not YNZ(who just appoint them)

YNZ is not a government body, hence they have no authority to prosecute 

Correct but seem to be hell bent on going over the top on some equipment(YNZ) compared to what MNZ requires

Is this the reason as to why some fleets have dropped off.Cat 4 covers harbour/inshore. Why would I need lea clothes on the bunks or bloody toilet/bucket fitted for a harbour race??Then this nonsense,need approved water containers but no mention of carrying water till cat 3.