Fatality - Northland

[marinheiro 363]

On 31/07/2021 at 12:48 PM, Fogg said:

Hah! Tbh I thought we’d covered the windows thing - the general consensus seems to be it’s a nuts idea which many folks aim to avoid by various means ranging from discussions with inspectors right through to registering offshore in a fit of pique - hence the thread drift into other emotive areas of regulation in NZ.

I’m still debating whether it’s easier to re-register in Cook Islands or repaint my transom…

ICNZ are running a webinar with Angus Willison this evening on the rule changes, members only. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say

[Cantab 341]

1 hour ago, marinheiro said:

It will be interesting to hear what he has to say

Sort of thing that should be coming from YNZ for everyone don't you think?

[marinheiro 363]

18 minutes ago, BOIGuy said:

Sort of thing that should be coming from YNZ for everyone don't you think?

I guess it comes down to the age old question do you wait for something to happen or ask for it/make it happen.

I had a small part to play in this ICNZ event, I had some contact with Viki Moore soon after she bought ICNZ and when she asked about ideas for events and guest speakers I suggested, knowing she is on the YNZ board, getting Angus along for a discussion about the rule changes.

I will ask Viki if it is possible to post a recording of the Webinar on the ICNZ site and possibly YNZ's

[waikiore 454]

Its funny how online you imagine some people to be much older than they really are Fogg for example.

[Black Panther 1,717]

I suggested to Viki she open this one up to non members as it would be of interest to many outside her group, and could help attract new members. 

Answer was no. Too bad 

[Fogg 427]

ICNZ? As in Insurance Council of New Zealand?

[marinheiro 363]

6 minutes ago, Fogg said:

ICNZ? As in Insurance Council of New Zealand?

https://www.islandcruising.nz/

[CarpeDiem 512]

On 1/09/2021 at 10:23 AM, marinheiro said:

ICNZ are running a webinar with Angus Willison this evening on the rule changes, members only. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say

Anything worth sharing? 

[marinheiro 363]

1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:

Anything worth sharing? 

The discussion was basically about rule 13 and its window shutter requirements. The key advice from Angus was that, even though the rule says you shall have fitted shutters, they may be prepared to approve a boat without them providing you can prove they have been designed as part of the structure (not just filling in the cutout), the current installation is in "as new" condition and that the boat's designer will certify this. 2 examples given where dispensation has been given were Elliott's Tourers and Ron Given's cats.  To be dealt with on a case by case basis thru your Cat 1 inspector

[chariot 244]

For a lot of older Kiwi designs surely you could argue historical use and provide evidence of successful offshore passages. of a particular design. That is if you are talking to practical people.

[Black Panther 1,717]

The designer of my boat has been dead for 20 years.

[Cantab 341]

I asked the designer of mine about stability information "we didn't do that sort of thing back then"

[Black Panther 1,717]

56 minutes ago, BOIGuy said:

I asked the designer of mine about stability information "we didn't do that sort of thing back then"

Same. It was the gz curve that made me give up last time. I decided that instead of paying $$$$$ to prove something of which I was 100% certain,  i would not bother racing and have a winter cruise to Fiji on my " alternative " registration .

[marinheiro 363]

4 hours ago, chariot said:

 That is if you are talking to practical people.

This is the inspectors list

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/resources/ynz-safety-inspectors-list

and there is great mix of sea time and boat design/building experience, not clip board carrying bureaucrats. Certainly my experience of several safety inspections has been that of common sense and practicality from the inspectors (including one inspection where Mr Fossil had no objection to undertaking the inspection while we were out on the harbour calibrating the instruments).

I think the issue here is the setting of the rules and I do feel YNZ do not engage enough with their "customers".

[Black Panther 1,717]

My experience was a rude arrogant person who babbled some real nonsense. 

 

YNZ customers are yacht clubs. Lots of cruisers wouldn't go near a yacht club.

[chariot 244]

This is why i suggested historical use. Doesn't matter if the designer is still alive, as long as the design has a history of successful offshore passages e.g Cav 32, chico 30 and a sackfull of others.

[Black Panther 1,717]

1 hour ago, chariot said:

This is why i suggested historical use. Doesn't matter if the designer is still alive, as long as the design has a history of successful offshore passages e.g Cav 32, chico 30 and a sackfull of others.

Makes sense. Similarly how about some credit for ocean miles covered by a skipper/owner?

[Island Time 1,286]

There normally is. Any despite your issues with one inspector, most are reasonable. Try Graham Brown, local here at GH. Very reasonable in my experience.

 

[marinheiro 363]

15 hours ago, Island Time said:

There normally is. Any despite your issues with one inspector, most are reasonable. Try Graham Brown, local here at GH. Very reasonable in my experience.

 

Graham Brown was on the ICNZ webinar call and provided pictures of the window shutters he had fitted to his own yacht, Minaret - an early 70's Lidgard.

[Fogg 427]

16 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Makes sense. Similarly how about some credit for ocean miles covered by a skipper/owner?

Mmm, isn’t that going down the wrong path? Shouldn’t the certification be 100% for the boat independent of the owner / skipper / crew?

Because if you follow that logic to its conclusion you could end up with a scenario whereby an inspector effectively says “Well this boat meets Cat 1 if it’s sailed by person X (with for example 25 yrs / 50,000nm offshore experience) but it fails if sailed by a person with lesser experience.”