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But what about the other way around? What if I’m paying someone to do work on my boat and they hurt themselves - possibly whilst I’m not even there? Am I now providing a place of work to contractors that I must keep safe?

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1 minute ago, Fogg said:

But what about the other way around? What if I’m paying someone to do work on my boat and they hurt themselves - possibly whilst I’m not even there? Am I now providing a place of work to contractors that I must keep safe?

That's why we carry insurance, usually part of the ship repairer policy...

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But isn’t that to protect contractors from damaging my boat? What if my boat damages you? I have insurance that covers financial liability for damage or injury but could I still be prosecuted by Woke-safe?

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6 minutes ago, Fogg said:

But isn’t that to protect contractors from damaging my boat? What if my boat damages you? I have insurance that covers financial liability for damage or injury but could I still be prosecuted by Woke-safe?

As long as you didn't set a booby trap and the boat is yours for private use (like your car is for instance) no since you are not a PCBU .  The H&S risk falls on the contractor.

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19 minutes ago, Fogg said:

But what about the other way around? What if I’m paying someone to do work on my boat and they hurt themselves - possibly whilst I’m not even there? Am I now providing a place of work to contractors that I must keep safe?

As always with these kinds of questions it's about the quality and detail in the question, . Garbage In = Garbage Out.

So I am going to assume that because you said 'I'm paying...' that you mean your natural self and not a company/club/trust/partnership.  I will also assume you're not registered as an employer for the purposes of carrying out a business or an undertaking. Therefore no you are not required to keep them safe. 

However lets assume that your natural-self is a sole-trader is registered as an employer and has an employee. You decide to get your employee to work on your boat, your employee infers that this is part of their duties, whether you specify it or not and even if you are or are not paying them, then yes you are required to keep them safe. 

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17 minutes ago, Fogg said:

But isn’t that to protect contractors from damaging my boat? What if my boat damages you? I have insurance that covers financial liability for damage or injury but could I still be prosecuted by Woke-safe?

There are other instruments that could used to prosecute you for this scenario, namely the wilful negligence section of the crimes act, but it wouldn't be Worksafe investigating. It would be the police. 

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3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Same as if someone was injured in your house due to some DIY electrical installation that you'd done...

including 12V DC?

 

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1 hour ago, DrWatson said:

including 12V DC?

My understanding is that power you generate for yourself and do not supply to anyone else is not subject to the ESA.

Assuming you are not buying the 12vDC supply from a 3rd party it would not be covered.

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13 hours ago, Adrianp said:

YNZ and the Inspectors are meeting tonight to review the findings of the Essence report, so you may want to call your inspector today if you have anything you want them to consider or bring up.

Anyone got any inside goss on this meeting?

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12 hours ago, DrWatson said:

I'll do it!

But on another note regarding clearing out. I communicated with French customs about procedure to leave the EU and re-enter. Response was, there is no procedure.  So how the hell does that work if I want to sail to Panama instead of just over to Jersey? Both are outside the EU...

Just load up and sail off??? No Zarpe?

 

 

We sailed from Spain to Gibraltar (outside EU) had to clear in but never cleared out of Spain so no Zarpe. Then sailed to Lanzarote, didn’t need to clear out of Gibraltar as we had cleared in and out at same time. Arrived Lanzarote and just cleared into marina with passports and boat registration done. Stayed a week then cleared out of marina for Caribbean, marina wanted to know if we had changed any of the crew that had sailed in, yes added two more, passports recorded. Ok now where do we go to clear out of EU, no we do that for you, just tell us your intended next port, I said not sure as we will decide once we get close, they said no we need a country name for this form, so I said Antigua, they said fine we send these forms off once a month to Spain. So I asked for a Zarpe, they said that’s it that receipt in your hand. Job done, only really started getting serious once we got close to the pacific, probably Panama, but then casual compared to NZ, that’s the only time we needed to send advanced notice and estimate arrival plus updates underway.

 

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7 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

My understanding is that power you generate for yourself and do not supply to anyone else is not subject to the ESA.

Assuming you are not buying the 12vDC supply from a 3rd party it would not be covered.

50V is the cutoff, above that and any installation (on or off grid) has to comply with Electrical Regulations and associated standards

DC installations on boats built after 2008 and 2014 have to comply with the respective revisions of AS3004.2

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Yeah because the marinas around NZ are littered with burnt-out wrecks and dead bodies caused from onboard electrical problems, right?

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5 hours ago, Fogg said:

Yeah because the marinas around NZ are littered with burnt-out wrecks and dead bodies caused from onboard electrical problems, right?

The question was in relation to Worksafe jurisdiction. Worksafe don't appear to have any jurisdiction over a private power generation scheme that is not provided to a 3rd party. 

The Electricity Safety Act which specifies what you can and cannot do as a DIYer does not appear apply to private generation schemes so long as that supply is not connected to or resold. 

This is very different to must follow a standard. 

I cannot see anything in the Act which stops me from working on my own personal generation system which never connects or supplies power to a third party. But I must follow the standard for anything over 50v.

Eg, I believe I can legally install a 12v/240v dc/ac inverter in my boat and put some power points in, so long as I follow the standard. And as long as the boat is never connected to the mains. 

Fundamentally this is the same as building work.  As a DIYer there is certain building work I can and cannot do. For the work I can do, I still have to follow the relevant building standards.

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I build valve amps.  Upward of 400VDC, anywhere up to 1200VAC.

I'm not registered or otherwise formally qualified.  As long as I am not doing it commercially, I'm fine.  I can resell items I've built as long as its not "commercial".

Still scares the crap outa me.  I overbuild like a madman.

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53 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

 

I cannot see anything in the Act which stops me from working on my own personal generation system which never connects or supplies power to a third party. But I must follow the standard for anything over 50v.

Eg, I believe I can legally install a 12v/240v dc/ac inverter in my boat and put some power points in, so long as I follow the standard. And as long as the boat is never connected to the mains. 

 

You need to read up about Prescribed Electrical Work from the act:

image.png.0757892c35d03fa4dba0eb940e2e14f2.png

(c) is the key, as soon as you are considering a hard wired connection to a power supply (that could be the grid, a generator, inverter or any other source of AC power), then it has to be done by a licensed sparkie.

NZ and Australia are very restrictive about what a DIYer can do electrically.

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15 minutes ago, marinheiro said:

You need to read up about Prescribed Electrical Work from the act:

image.png.0757892c35d03fa4dba0eb940e2e14f2.png

(c) is the key, as soon as you are considering a hard wired installation to a power supply (that could be the grid, a generator, inverter or any other source of AC power), then it has to be done by a licensed sparkie.

NZ and Australia are very restrictive about what a DIYer can do electrically.

I am not completely across the act and what the prescribed work applies to. I note clauses such as the below. (which gives me unfounded hope) one day I will get across the act :)

Mains work does not include

work on fittings that are used or intended for use by any person in, or in connection with, the generation of electricity for that person’s use and not for supply to any other person; or

 

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3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

The question was in relation to Worksafe jurisdiction. Worksafe don't appear to have any jurisdiction over a private power generation scheme that is not provided to a 3rd party. 

The Electricity Safety Act which specifies what you can and cannot do as a DIYer does not appear apply to private generation schemes so long as that supply is not connected to or resold. 

This is very different to must follow a standard. 

I cannot see anything in the Act which stops me from working on my own personal generation system which never connects or supplies power to a third party. But I must follow the standard for anything over 50v.

Eg, I believe I can legally install a 12v/240v dc/ac inverter in my boat and put some power points in, so long as I follow the standard. And as long as the boat is never connected to the mains. 

Fundamentally this is the same as building work.  As a DIYer there is certain building work I can and cannot do. For the work I can do, I still have to follow the relevant building standards.

I think that’s all true except the inverter bit. The minute you install anything that can create mains voltage it gets attention from the inspector. I think that’s the case even if you’re not connected to a marina. That was my experience recently.

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10 hours ago, Fogg said:

The minute you install anything that can create mains voltage it gets attention from the inspector. I think that’s the case even if you’re not connected to a marina. That was my experience recently.

This is correct. The only exception is if you have a little Inverter or Honda generator where the power outlets are 3 pin sockets. This then gets very grey if you connect to a hard wired system. By the way, none of the small generators, and only the top end (eg Victron, Mastervolt and maybe one or 2 others) inverters are AS/NZS3000 compliant, they are supposed to have the earth and neutral connected when in service.

This Off Grid supplier correctly recognises his obligations

https://powerandwater.co.nz/questions.html

If you want another example think about an event in a park where there is a big diesel generator humming away and cables running all over the place. That installation has to be carried out by a licensed electrician and he has to issue a COC (Certificate of Compliance) prior to powering up. There is no ROI (Record of Inspection) because the system is not connected to the mains. An ROI is issued whenever the first connection is made to the mains, eg an ROI is issued when a licensed inspector checks the electrical installation in a new house and makes the connection to the mains. The EWOF for boats/campervans is effectively an ROI, issued by the same licensed inspectors.

Sorry for the thread drift here...

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