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Waiheke Island no take zone

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15 hours ago, Frank said:

I hear your concerns but frankly sometimes it feels like "If not them then who ?  MPI are hopeless. You want to see the fish life in Deep Water Cove due to the 2 year Rahui.

There has always been good fish life in Deep Water Cove

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The problem isn’t the recreational take, it’s less than 4% off the top of my head.

The problem is quotas were issued on historical data, so if you caught x tonnes of fish for the last x years then that was your allocation 

Problem being that they brought in the quota system because of over fishing so nothings changed they were and still are taking more that can be sustained. With minor tweaks, 

Personally I believe all commercial fishing should be restricted to small operations fishing with long lines ( one hook one fish ) and enclosed waters like the Hauraki Gulf should be recreational only. Small operators will fish for sustainability, corporations will fish for profit then move to another area once no longer profitable.

Plus the recreational take is still too high, no one can eat 9 or 20 fish as it is now, 4 fish of any size makes more sense to me, in other words you can take any size fish but just 4 of them.

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2 hours ago, lateral said:

 Problem is 4/person or boat? Neither addresses the problem. 

/boat and then they will keep fishing and throwing untold juveniles back with associated  casualty rate.

Little sign of responsible animal husbandry amongst fishers.

More interested in the adrenaline/endorphins from chasing down lesser species and/or dollars.

Thats been my arguement for yrs with advocacy groups,take first 4/7 legal fish,no sorting or high grading like comms do,in fact go one step futher like whats just been introduced in South Australia.


New snapper fishing management arrangements for the South East including recreational bag limits will come into effect 1 February 2021.

Recreational fishers will be allowed to catch two snapper per person per day or six per boat but it will be mandatory to report catches through the Department of Primary Industries and Regions Recreational Fishing App

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Recently asked Legasea via F/B why they supported this non binding Rahui yet they would not support a court approved reserve at Motiti Island.NO answer.

Asked same question to their bosses and the reply was the Rahui gives hope for recovery of Shellfish/crayfish.Reserves do not have an active roll in producing Biomass of stocks.

Confused I am.

Noted at Parliament today the question was asked .Will this Rahui gain legal standing and be backed by Oceans and Fisheries.NO answer.

I currently have an email in with the Minister over the "Rescuefish" policy as it is not as seems .Under the policy there is more chance of damage being done than is currently happening.If I get a reply you will be enlightened to what the problem maybe.


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no reply at this stage but has ben sent forward for consideration.

Dear Paul Carnahan


Thank you for your email which I will pass on for consideration.


Kind regards




Office of Hon David Parker


Office of Hon David Parker MP | Attorney-General | Minister for the Environment | Minister for Oceans and Fisheries | Minister of Revenue | Associate Minister of Finance


Authorised by Hon David Parker MP, Parliament Buildings, Wellington






From: Paul Carnahan [mailto:d_carnahan@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2021 5:45 PM
To: Hon David Parker <David.Parker@parliament.govt.nz>
Subject: Rahui/Rescue fish


Dear Minister


Rahui Waiheke Island.


I believe “Legasea” and the New Zealand Fishing sports fishing Council both support the non binding Rahui at Waiheke Island .Yet Both do not support the Current non take zone around Motiti Island,Bay of plenty. Have asked both parties what is the difference and one has said non take/reserves do nothing to increase biomass of stock.


Rescue fish.


After a discussion with a Legasea representative MR Pieter Battaerd. It was revealed how all inshore trawlers would become longliners.

Now this is the problem,we currently have in SNA1 aprox 30 longliners and 100 inshore trawlers,so to convert those trawlers in to longliners would /could put a further 30,000 hooks per day in an area which is already over fished and in particular would affect the average publics fishing ground.At the moment most inshore trawling takes place where recreational do not fish and the Trawlers pretty much trawl the same line so minimum impact being done to seabed.No trawler is operating around reef systems due to torn nets etc.


Mr Battaerd stated that the “ rescuefish policy” has been given the nod and will become a reality at what cost to NZ on buy back of Quota etc??The qms just needs a few tweaks after 30yrs.

When one looks at their Petition only 15000 have signed after 6 months and Legasea claim to have 80000 followers.


How can Mr Battaerd make such a statement?


I have no commercial interest in fishing.

I am an active recreational fisherman in SNA1 and seem to have no problem in getting a few fish for family or elderly nieghbours


Look forward to your reply.

Paul Carnahan.


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10 hours ago, bigal.nz said:

He doesnt even reply to LegaSea. 

This is a great read : https://www.emr.org.nz/images/emr/pdf/why-mr/Why-do-we-need-MR-Dr Roger-Grace.pdf

Short version : both commercial and recreational can continue to fish if we make 10% of the gulf a marine reserve, those reserves would act like protected creches.


According to legasea and nzsfc reserves serve no purpose as far as increasing biomass.there is the problem.how much coast do you lock off?? Remember if you lock off 20/30 miles if coast you then put more pressure on remains areas  Take goat island most stock has moved why?.poached lack of food area to small to sustain.

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Go for a snorkel with the schools of 10lb plus snapper and shoals of trevally at the Poor Knights to see how reserves can work. We swam with a turtle there this Christmas for 15 minutes or so which was a first for me in New Zealand.

30 years ago we caught good crays at Waiheke, scallops in Oneroa and there were schools of kingfish at spray rock. It needs a rest for sure.

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Proposed temporary closure around Waiheke Island to the harvest of scallops, mussels, rock lobster, and pāua

Dear Fishers,

Ngāti Pāoa have requested a temporary closure to the harvest of scallops, mussels, rock lobster, and pāua from Waiheke Island.
The request is for a 2-year closure.
Fisheries New Zealand invites written submissions in response to the request from persons who have an interest in the species concerned or in the effects of fishing in the area concerned.
The proposed temporary closure covers all that area of New Zealand fisheries waters within 1 nautical mile offshore from the mean high-water mark of Waiheke Island.
Background to the request
Section 186A of the Fisheries Act 1996 provides that the Minister of Fisheries may temporarily close an area, or temporarily restrict or prohibit the use of any fishing method in respect of an area if satisfied that the closure, restriction, or prohibition will recognise and provide for the use and management practices of tangata whenua in the exercise of non-commercial fishing rights.
Temporary closures apply to recreation, commercial and customary fishing, but have no effect on marine farming.
Ngāti Pāoa consider that a temporary closure will recognise and provide for the customary management practices of tangata whenua in the exercise of their non-commercial fishing rights and allow time for scallop, mussel, rock lobster, and pāua stocks in the area to replenish and increase in number and size.

Further information can be found at the links below.

Find out more about temporary closures

Consultation documents
Waiheke Island application [PDF, 378 KB]
Proposed Waiheke Island temporary closure map [PDF, 4.3 MB]

Making your submission
The closing date for submissions is 5pm on 22 March 2021. 
Email your submission to FMSubmissions@mpi.govt.nz
While we prefer email, you can post your submission to:
Spatial Planning and Allocations
Fisheries Management
Fisheries New Zealand
PO Box 2526

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5 hours ago, darkside said:

Go for a snorkel with the schools of 10lb plus snapper and shoals of trevally at the Poor Knights to see how reserves can work. We swam with a turtle there this Christmas for 15 minutes or so which was a first for me in New Zealand.

30 years ago we caught good crays at Waiheke, scallops in Oneroa and there were schools of kingfish at spray rock. It needs a rest for sure.

Yes but the poor nights covers a large area ,only accessible by vessel which is probably the saving part.

Fishers need to get away from hunting the trophy fish.Our moto is ,if legal its bagged,why risk barotrauma etc a legal snapper can produce a decent feed if your good at filleting in fact bake the whole fish.

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8 hours ago, harrytom said:

According to legasea and nzsfc reserves serve no purpose as far as increasing biomass.there is the problem.how much coast do you lock off?? Remember if you lock off 20/30 miles if coast you then put more pressure on remains areas  Take goat island most stock has moved why?.poached lack of food area to small to sustain.

The report states you need to lock off 10%. It also details that the reserves must be of a certain size to be effective (Goat Island for example is to small).

If you aren't going to listen to the research and scientists then what do you suggest? At this point anything is better than nothing.

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If NZ is serious and I mean serious in saving what we have left.You have to take a very hard stance and it will effect me too,No fishing within 1 or2 miles of the nz coast including offshore islands,no taking anything ,yes it will affect commercial flounders etc but lock it off for for a minimum of 2yrs then stock count/size.I would estimate 3 yrs would be enough. 10% is bugger all if you are talking sna1 .North cape to east cape. 10% of the hauraki gulf will have nil effect.

Stretching from Mangawhai, north of Auckland, to Waihi on the Coromandel Peninsula, the Hauraki Gulf covers 1.2 million hectares of ocean. It is one of New Zealand's most valued and intensively used resources – for food gathering, recreation and conservation.

10% of 1.2 million is stuff all


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Fishing in a reserve with a long line

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Thanks,Bloody disgusting what people will do.And thats just one case thats made the media how more are there undetected??

Pity they didnt leave it till owners turned up.

On a recent trip on the Manukau e were out around Tipi Tai head(cake island) and there was a net ,reported to Fisheries as set netting banned there due to Hectors frequent the area.Were advised not too remove.

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On 17/02/2021 at 6:46 AM, harrytom said:

According to legasea and nzsfc reserves serve no purpose as far as increasing biomass.there is the problem.how much coast do you lock off?? Remember if you lock off 20/30 miles if coast you then put more pressure on remains areas  Take goat island most stock has moved why?.poached lack of food area to small to sustain.

Marine Reserves do little to increase the biomass outside the reserve if the reserve is too small (and not part of a planned larger network of MRs). The MR at Goat Island is a good example - only 5sq km - there are very few snapper just outside the MR because of edge fishing. Even whats in the MR is not as much as it could be. 

Dr.Grace states that the MR's need to be at least 40 sq km each - and carefully selected through out the gulf to catch various types of habitat - again at least 10% of the gulf needs to be MR. 20% would be better. 

No expert here - but that is what the report says and makes sense.

On a happy note I was able to snorkel and see crays in 1.5m of water at Tawharanui the other day - on the little rocky outcrop between Anchor bay and the next one towards the peninsula. Wouldn't it be great to see as much protection of the ocean at Tiri as there is of the land?

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Tiri tiri Matangi would make a great reserve around the whole island,500m exclsion zone,would give visitors the chance to snorkel while waiting for ferry etc.cleanish/clear water.Had this descussion with Scott Macindoe a few yrs ago..    There is a reserve off long bay and I think it is only to protect the pipi beds,n and same around the sisters at Waiheke/ponui only ever held undersize and Kahawai.

The problem is trying to the reserves across the line,opposition from both parties comms/reccs not in my backyard.

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One thing we should be doing is removing kina.not decemate beds but remove enough to re establish kelp beds.without kelp spat/fry have no cover from preditors.Kina have exploded as not enough big fish or snapper left to keep under control

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Bloody Hard to disagree with.

The Unpopular Truth About Recreational Fishermens Unnaccountability In New Zealand
"A shared fishery can create tensions, but marine experts Scott and Sue Tindale say there are many improvements that can be made towards a healthy marine environment and a thriving fishery – and much of that is in the recreational and science space. LESLEY HAMILTON reports.
Scott Tindale says the commercial sector is not perfect, but it contributes to marine research, the catch is quantified, and they are continually upgrading procedures.
He is not as kind when talking about the education and regulation around recreational fishers – and he is scathing of those who seek to blame the commercial sector for all ills with any fishery.
Recreational catch mortality is very high, according to Tindale.
“Most have no idea how to handle or unhook a fish, exercise poor tackle selection like barbed ‘J’ or three-pronged hooks that cause gut hooking of unwanted or undersized fish, and they just chuck it back dead or dying and call that recreational catch. I call it dumping and high grading,” says Tindale.
“Look, I am not MPI and I don’t want to be the fun police either. My job is to educate people about the best way to do things but there is a lot of work to do.”
The couple call weekends on the Hauraki Gulf the charge of the light brigade with pleasure craft charging through the middle of a work-up, flattening seabirds.
“I had one guy ring me up laughing because he had his windscreen smashed by a couple of gannets. So, I am sitting on these working groups and these guys are only on about commercial bycatch and I just throw my phone on the table and show them a video of a guy strangling a shag while he is trying to get his live bait hook out of his mouth – and he did that twice while I was filming.”
Tindale says they were incredibly frustrated with the misinformation in the public domain and the apparent reluctance to contradict it with fact. “Part of the reason for starting the Trust was we wanted to get actual data out there, not someone’s opinion or estimate or survey. I’ve done those surveys.
“I mean CRA2. MPI know I hate the National Panel Survey because it is garbage. But in CRA2 they interviewed two people and they weight the numbers. I mean if I were a fisheries officer, I might have to have a word with these two panel respondents because they got 360 crays each per day after the manipulation of the numbers. What it is, is guesswork and creative accounting.
“And the ramp surveys. Try coming to Gulf Harbour where there are punch ups because there is so much traffic queuing for the ramp. Try getting someone to stop for a three-minute survey there. If your car is stopped someone is going to throw a brick at you. We were at Shelley beach and we were just waiting for the queue to die down, so I just wandered over to the woman doing the ramp survey and asked her how many she had counted. She said no one wanted to talk to her and the only ones who approached her were new to the area and wanted to know where the fish were. Then I gave some guys a hand with their chilly bin and they sniggered and said they caught nothing. I had damn near put my back out lifting it out of the boat for them,” says Tindale.
According to NIWA, the average recreational fisherman catches 1.2 kilos of fish per person per year on four trips.
Tindale says every recreational angler he knows, even the ones who are hopeless at catching fish can do better than that.
Then there are the aerial surveys.
“We were out on the top of the Manukau Bar the same day DOC was doing the aerial survey for Maui dolphins where they came up with the number 50– and I counted 17 of them around my boat in three different locations. We jokingly put a complaint into DOC that they were chasing our kahawai away.”
Scott and Sue Tindale say the ministry’s research done in New Zealand on inshore species needs to get out faster and shouted from the rooftops, but it is not.
“Why is the research not being shared as it is done, not five years down the track when it may be peer reviewed, but it is out of date? Instead of arguing the tarakihi is functionally extinct based on a research project that was done six years earlier, why aren’t we releasing the latest one that shows they have bounced back?”
So why does Tindale think there is such a divide between recreational and commercial fishers?
“There are a lot of people who don’t fish, or don’t fish that often. Even with our tagging programme, the first reaction I got from recreational fishers was whether I was going to give all the data on their fishing spots to the commercial guys. I told them I was pretty sure that the commercial fishers who are out there 365 days a year are not interested in the one spot you go on that one weekend in January along with everyone else.”
NIWA estimates some 20 percent of the population fish recreationally and Tindale says 33 percent of them fish in the Hauraki Gulf, where there is very limited commercial fishing.
“Recreational fishers claim the Gulf is functionally extinct yet each time I go out there I can’t avoid catching fish. We have rules of which fish you can catch and how many you can catch but no one tells you how to fish,” says Tindale.
“I have done a lot of research on the species everyone claims they can’t catch in the Gulf like tarakihi, snapper, and kahawai. But everyone is hell bent on charging into the Motuihe channel to sit next to their mate’s boat with the stereo blaring and wonder why they’re not catching anything.
“It’s a patch of water that is next to the largest city in New Zealand and everyone wants to blame someone else for not catching fish.”
The Tindales say the need for recreational education is urgent.
“We help Southern Seabirds at the boat shows and ask every person who walks by if they have ever caught a seabird. At the Auckland on the Water show every single person said yes. Yet, while the commercial sector is using dyed baits and tori lines, there are no mitigation methods expected of any other fisher. And where are the resources being put into telling them how to release a bird safely if you do catch one? And telling them there is legislation that says you must report every protected sea bird capture?
“When Sue and I wander along any beach it is common to find discarded fishing line and dead seabirds with wings missing. Braid is deadly and cuts a seabird’s wing off easily if they get tangled and the rod is struck to flick it off.
“I was part of working groups on seabirds where they would just beat up on commercial fishers and I’d go hold on; how many birds did commercial have interactions with last year? And I would comment that I see more birds caught by recreational fishers on a long weekend on the Hauraki.”
The Tindales are constantly seeing unacceptable behaviour.
“We filmed a dead Antipodean Albatross floating on the water off Whangaroa in the hapuku grounds. It had only just been thrown overboard because when you see the small feathers floating around it you know it hasn’t been there very long. It had its throat cut. A fortnight later when I was in a seabird working group, I showed them the photographs. I also told them I know for a fact a commercial crew was not responsible,” says Tindale. The subject was changed.
However, it is the ignorance around commercial fishing that really riles Tindale up.
“The last meeting I had with LegaSea I had to explain what the EEZ was. They were having this argument about kicking commercial boats out to 50 miles and I told them New Zealand territorial waters only go out to 12 nautical miles. They didn’t understand that the EEZ only gave us exclusive rights to extract from it.
“Another meeting I had with them they were going on about purse seining for skip jack tuna and bleating on about how it was destroying the seabed. I mean, honestly, did these guys actually think the purse seiner net touches the bottom?”
Tindale does not believe LegaSea and other eNGOs actually believe what they are saying. “It’s money. LegaSea is a limited liability company. It can’t get funding unless they create a problem that they say needs fixing. My answer to them is if they are so worried about fish stocks, we should count the recreational catch. Boy that goes down like a lead balloon, with screams of ‘it’s our birth right’,” says Tindale. Both believe these groups should be accountable for the misleading information placed in the domain. Meanwhile, the Tindales just get on with their core job of educating people through their own tagging programme.
“When we were assisting NIWA it was frustrating that they didn’t want to release the information right away. With our programme, updates are put on social media regularly, I analyse the database here and do quarterly reports that are available on the Trust’s website for everyone to see.
“It’s about getting fishers to think about more than just killing fish. Let’s find out how fast they grow and where they move. I want the average guy out there to know that that 54cm kahawai that they just caught could be 24 years old. Or, if they let that snapper go at 20cms there is 90 percent chance it is of breeding age and if it gets recaptured in a years’ time it will have put out two million eggs.”
Tindale says it’s not about them and us.
“It’s about education, consistent, well-flagged regulations, robust and speedy science, and the holding accountable of those who choose to spread misinformation.”
“Anyone who cares about a healthy, shared resource should be working with all sectors, not against.”
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Photo~International Game Fish Association
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