Why are we stuck with just a couple brands in NZ?

[Zozza 334]

This could be quite an expansive subject applied to many genre, but I am limiting it to paint and epoxy products.
**Why can't I get 'Total Boat' epoxy range in NZ?
Why are we stuck with just West System and a couple others?
**Why can't I get Epifanes "Rapid Clear' in NZ?  Why can't I get most Epifanes paints and varnishes in NZ? **Why are we stuck with just International Paints and Altex Paints and a couple other small brands.
**Why can't get Alexseal paints in NZ?
**Why can't I get Awlgrip in NZ?
**Why can't I get the world famous "Pettit Trinidad" anti-fouling range in NZ?

I bet some of you "in the game" will come back with "Ah, but you can...you have to talk to this person, then to this person, who then needs to talk to this other person whom will tell that person that there is a three month lead in time to get the stuff into NZ"

Nah, stuff that - I just want to be able to walk into a marine chandler or use a a good online chandlery website here in NZ, and buy these brands off the shelf rather than going through hoops.

Why is NZ absolutely hopeless in this regard?  It can't be just because of the pandemic because none of the brands above were available before Covid anyway.

It just peeves me off.

There...I feel better now got that off me chest.

[Jon 397]

Same in lots of industries here, Supermarkets being another

IMHO it’s because of a history of a few large companies dominating the market and when a small guy starts they first try to strong arm them out and if that doesn’t work buy them out so they can maintain their large margins, they say it’s our small market but this is bollocks, lots of small countries around the world are cheaper in lots of ways than here. Mostly isolation that allows this but then again French Supermarkets in Tahiti are cheaper than here and that’s for food from NZ

[Winter 42]

you can buy awlgrip off the shelf in the chandlery at orams. just painted my boat with it.

but, I agree. 

[Zozza 334]

15 minutes ago, Jon said:

Same in lots of industries here, Supermarkets being another

IMHO it’s because of a history of a few large companies dominating the market and when a small guy starts they first try to strong arm them out and if that doesn’t work buy them out so they can maintain their large margins, they say it’s our small market but this is bollocks, lots of small countries around the world are cheaper in lots of ways than here. Mostly isolation that allows this but then again French Supermarkets in Tahiti are cheaper than here and that’s for food from NZ

So true Jon.

This whinge of mine came about as I am about to embark on a long journey of restoring a 'plastic classic' from UK that sailed here to NZ many years ago.  I peruse a lot of online DIY boat restoration youtube video and readership, such as 'Good old Boat'.   I am learning a lot, but so, so many times, the products these people are using or recommend are just not available here.  Some of things are not small brands either.  'Total Boat' epoxy products appears to be a big player in North America and Europe, and 'Awlgrip' is a HUGE name internationally ---- we are in the year 2022, you would think in this day and age we should have these products damn well available here. But - no.

[Zozza 334]

1 minute ago, Winter said:

you can buy awlgrip off the shelf in the chandlery at orams. just painted my boat with it.

but, I agree. 

Cheers Winter, good one, thank you.  Orams obviously can't be bothered advertising that fact though -- I google it and all I get is those online overseas websites like 'Ubuy' and "Desert cart' cart etc - no dedicated NZ seller advertising it - so thanks for that tip, but not sure why Orams want to keep it a secret.


 

[Winter 42]

it's considered a 'professional product ' , ie not diy friendly, I think they are not allowed to market to Joe public, because awl grip gets too many complaints of failures from people that didn't follow the instructions to a T

[Zozza 334]

Just now, Winter said:

it's considered a 'professional product ' , ie not diy friendly, I think they are not allowed to market to Joe public, because awl grip gets too many complaints of failures from people that didn't follow the instructions to a T

Ok thanks...I can "sorta" understand that -- but overall, I think you appear to be agreeing when it comes to other widely available marine brands around the world, NZ is like an almost empty desert.

[Priscilla II 414]

3 hours ago, Jon said:

Same in lots of industries here, Supermarkets being another

IMHO it’s because of a history of a few large companies dominating the market and when a small guy starts they first try to strong arm them out and if that doesn’t work buy them out so they can maintain their large margins, they say it’s our small market but this is bollocks, lots of small countries around the world are cheaper in lots of ways than here. Mostly isolation that allows this but then again French Supermarkets in Tahiti are cheaper than here and that’s for food from NZ

Try buying Gib Board what a clusterfuck with Wistones holding 94% of the national market.

[aardvarkash10 1,072]

NZ is a very small market about as far from major manufacturers as you can get.  In that environment importers reduce cost and risk by only importing a narrow range of products.

This applies in pretty much every product category you care to look at.

Some people I knew in the 90s set up a small specialist epoxy manufacturing business in Auckland.  It went under.  The product was good, but the market was too small and cost of establishment swallowed them.  Things may be different now.

Of course, you are free to import the products and distribute them in NZ if you think there is a commercial opening for them....

[Y88 5241 26]

We use Awlgrip products all the time and well stocked in NZ through Akzo Nobel, who also do International Paints 

[wheels 544]

There are several issues that have come together to make that perfect storm scenario. The biggy is that products produced in several overseas countries are near impossible to get at the mo, due to the problems Covid caused. Other products produced here in NZ have had issues with getting raw materials. The issue is over much of the market in NZ, not just a few marine related brands.
 

[Zozza 334]

1 minute ago, wheels said:

There are several issues that have come together to make that perfect storm scenario. The biggy is that products produced in several overseas countries are near impossible to get at the mo, due to the problems Covid caused. Other products produced here in NZ have had issues with getting raw materials. The issue is over much of the market in NZ, not just a few marine related brands.
 

I hear yuh Wheels, but before Covid, most of the brands I named (and there are others) were near impossible to get here either.

[wheels 544]

Before covid here in NZ or before covid world wide. Remember that the rest of the world was dramatically affected a whole year to year and a half before NZ was.
Some products have undergone ownership changes and thus are now under different names or product lines dropped and others added. Especially in the coatings industry. For Anti-fouls, new regulations have meant some of the old lines no longer exist. Hence why i said it is a whole lot of diffferent issues coming together. There is no one issue, it's a myriad.

 

[Psyche 755]

Re Epoxy; we are too small for many players to enter the retail market is the short answer, plus its a very conservative industry.  The unknown product may be better but until you get a bit of feedback you are probably going to stick with the known company. There's more than one supplier for industry, when you are using epoxy by the drum there's a lot more choice.

NZ Fibreglass out in Morrin Rd will sell you epoxy btw

[Sudden5869 17]

53 minutes ago, Psyche said:

NZ Fibreglass out in Morrin Rd

Second that....  great supplier

[waikiore 454]

All the brands mentioned have been sold here -but especially bringing in paint to NZ is a tricky and expensive game with little reward we just havent got the numbers and it is too dear to advertise in the boating press.

[Psyche 755]

14 minutes ago, waikiore said:

it is too dear to advertise in the boating press.

Which boating press are you talking about? The new trailer hardtop for 200k press, the new Riviera 70 so affordable press, the new budget harbour racer for 600k press or the look at my 2 bedroom apartment with a mast on top press?

As far as I can tell the last article about painting boats DIY in the "press" was last century

[aardvarkash10 1,072]

I'm not sure that boat manufacturing and repair/rebuild is such a significant part of the polymers market in NZ.  Its high visibility, but industrial stuff like refrigerated truck bodies probably uses more by a long shot. 

The boating mags are aimed at end users by and large - the vast majority of them would be hard pressed to identify the difference between resin and hardener even when its written on the container.

[Psyche 755]

48 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

the vast majority of them would be hard pressed to identify the difference between resin and hardener even when its written on the container.

Resin and hardener....what are you, a chemistry phd? The boating public struggles with "part A and part B"

[wheels 544]

Most solid glass boats are not made from Epoxy. They are Vinyl Ester. Only specialised type hulls get laid up using epoxies. Like specialised racing hulls.
The new names on the market have not been around for all that long in comparison to the two staples, being West and Epiglass. Plus not as many boats are built in back yards today either, so the market is not like the old days. Much less quantity to make a name with.
Epiglass and West are the two most common for Boats because they were formulated specifically for use in the boat building market. Not al Epoxies are created equal. An epoxy needs to be able to wet out the glass well, allow air to migrate out, have good penetration into the timber, and have a certain amount of flex without cracking, but not too much that it does not stay rigid. Ultimately the aim is to make a joint without the need for mechanical fastenings. Sanding is an often over looked aspect as well. Especially if you are using Resins with powders. Some brands are harder to sand than others. Some tend to clogg the sandpaper, others are as hard as hobnails.
Then you have the ratio of hardener to Resin. A higher number in ratio adds up to a product that is harder to work with, but often performs better strength wise and is more rigid. But you have to have greater accuracy in measuring the two parts and the combination needs to be really well mixed. A low ratio tends to be safer to use, easier to use and has a greater fudge factor in measurement and mixing.
If you talk to any of the experts that use Epoxies on boats all the time, you will find that they notice a big difference between brands in how they perform. It used to be that specific brands would look after their clients with good deals. I don't know if that still happens today or not.