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$1 reserve boat


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I'm pretty new to sailing and just heard about this website. So I hope I can get some advice.

My partner is a mechanic but hasn't had much experience with marine engines. We are thinking very seriously about this boat which may be a bargain but could be a can of worms. We've managed to look aboard with a friend. It's nice inside but needs a cleanup.

What do people think? We've only got one day to decide.

Here's the link.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3969369830

Thanks everyone

Kelly

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Depends on the final price. Buying the yacht is only a part of the cost of ownership. Where would you keep her? Looks like needs hauling and re antifouling, annodes and other normal maint stuff. Look at haulout and hardstand costs at your nearest facility. There are many worse boats out there than an easterly 30. Most of the boats on trademe for $1 are not worth repairing. This one may be different, it may not. I've not seen her personally.

Think about the maint costs. Would you do most yourself?  1st is hull and structure condition? Sails and rig condition? Mechanical condition? Electrical, plumbing and ancillaries? Boats are quite complex. Can you, or do you know someone who could have a thorough look, or a proper survey? If not, or not sufficient time to organize, walk away.  

If that's not daunting, or you are prepared to take the risk, bid away!

Oh, and boats ARE WORTH IT... in my (somewhat biased) opinion :-)

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Thanks Island Time. We met the owner who seemed quite up front about the issues. It's on the hardstand now at Hobsonville Marina. The hull has no osmosis that we could see. Our friend who looked at it said he'd help us do the antifoul and we can do most of the maintenance. We may be able to do a deal with the owner to buy his swing mooring. He used to keep it in Hobson Bay. We live in Devonport so would have to travel around the harbour to Hobson Bay but it's not too far. We weren't allowed to unfurl the sails because of marina rules but we took the sail cover off and from what we could see that sail material was still strong. Thanks for the reminder about annodes. I now know what they are and we didn't check them.

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ideally you should have a boatbuilder complete a survey and they can tell you a lot of the imprtant stuff - you're going to need that for insurance and without insurance you can't get back on the hardstand, and you need to be on the hardstand to have a survey done......

also, the cheaper the boat usually means the more expensive to fix.....

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$400/500 pw hard stand fees + repairs unless you can get it home.

Work out the costs to fix + haul out fees. Remember its only a $1 reserve so will go for a lot more,might be better off buying existing,one that you sail now.

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my thoughts as a relatively new keeler owner.

IT is correct - buying is the cheap bit.  We spend about $6k a year to run our 10m keeler - its about the same age as the Easterly, different construction.  Thats just basic mooring and operating costs, not upgrades.

Getting rid of an old yacht that is unsaleable is expensive - probably double the current bid on this yacht.  With that in mind and assuming that any cheap yacht is a poke in the dark, you need to figure out your appetite for risk.  Can you accept a total loss if you have to give it away to get rid of it?

The yacht itself is a capable gulf cruiser.  It is tired, but imo not exhausted (I've been aboard it mid year 2022).  It needs the love the owner has not been able to give recently and he is quite open about that.

Go in eyes open and do your maths - to be fair if you have to ask the price of operating a keeler its probably best you don't buy one but sometimes we are brave and/or stupid, not logical.

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WOW! Thanks aardvarkash10. $6k per year is more than we thought. Can I ask what that might include? I know there are mooring fees and insurance. Would a trailer sailer be better in terms of ownership costs? Interesting that you've been aboard. Did you see anything the owner didn't include in the ad? Sorry to ask if it's awkward and your friend. Don't answer if it puts you in a difficult position. We've looked at a few boats and this might be worth it.

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Wouldn't agree to having a boat builder do the survey unless they are a registered surveyor as well otherwise the insurance company won't accept their report. Have to have all the appropriate checklists from registered surveyor. Can be just for insurance purposes or a full survey which costs more $.

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I should get the "what does running your boat cost?" thread made sticky, it comes up a lot.

Our pole mooring in Clevedon is $350/mth

Insurance about $700per year.

Haul and antifoul and 1 week hardstand for doing deferred maintenance about $1k/yr

Club membership to get better access to haul facilities - $300/yr

maintenance fund is the balance.  Stuff like a recent sail service which was $450 for a relatively simple service. Last year I also pulled the engine out and replaced a rear main oil seal and replaced the exhaust header.  My labour was free but would have been 12-16 hours.  The exhaust elbow I had made for about $250.  Stuff like that comes up ALL. THE. TIME.  Next maintenance expenditure will probably be running rigging, we definitely need ot reseal the shaft stuffing box (same issue as on the yacht you are considering)

We have sunk some capital into new sail cover and spray dodger, replacement dinghy and outboard, adding refrigeration and heating.  I have not included those

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Re insurance (going off on a tangent here), a mate has a 28 foot Keeler made of ply, a well known Townson design. Owned for 15 years, insured same company all that time, no claims made.

Company has told him that because boat is ply and now reached 20 years of age he MUST do (and pass) a survey every year in order to re-insure. He's in Westhaven so has to have insurance.

Annual expenses just got a lot more expensive. And a little scarier.

 

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4 hours ago, MsKellySails said:

Thanks motorb and harrytom

 

I asked the owner about insurance and he has it already. I'll have to ring the company to find out if if can be transferred.

Need it to be hauled out or even rent a marina now days. Not just hull for survey/rig and sails + motor    Not idea what sails cost today but a new main and jib 6 yrs ago was close to $5k rig?? 26ft.

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Thanks again everyone

The mooring fees aren't that bad on Hobson Bay. Pity about the insurance. My dad reminded me that In the old days insurance was through mutual societies so there was no profit motive. Is there anything like that in NZ? Maybe a bunch of boaties who actually know what they are talking about? My hubbie hasn't seen the motor running but he's happy to do the labour and reckons even if it's a marinised motor it should be ok. We won't be spending $25k, that's for sure!! He reckons old diesels can run forever if they're well maintained. But he says you won't know fully until you start. Are there any things special about a marine engine he should know?

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12 hours ago, MsKellySails said:

Are there any things special about a marine engine he should know?

Yeap, parts pricing for some marine engines are in another universe compared to industrial, transport and agricultural engines. Worth some research as sometimes there is an equivalent obtainable from those sectors at a much reduced cost.

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Interesting thread.

First, nothing wrong with an Easterly. This one had a "finicky" owner till he got sick. I'd say well worth a punt. 

Second,  I'd agree the ongoing cost of ownership is more important than the purchase price. A figure of 10% of value of the boat is often used. But you won't spend that every year. Some more Some less. 

We have got this as low as possible for our 60ft 30 yo plywood boat. Mooring 2400pa. Insurance about 1200pa (never had the boat surveyed or inspected). The big one was coppercoat.  Hauled once in 6 years to replace lost prop, probably saved $20,000 so far.

Most other items I do myself and can get out of my 1000pm budget.

Now retired I  can see a day when I will sell her for something smaller but I am putting it as far into the future as I can. 

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Thanks again. I didn't know you could build a massive boat out of plywood!! And good point on searching for non-marine engine parts. Yeah the owner seemed to care about his boat and seemed genuinely upset to be losing it. I guess it's something all boaties face when age creeps up. He said he had hoped to get another 10 years at least. Black Panther, did I read you correctly that you budget $1000 per month???

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