A GREAT STRATEGY for buying a boat or a WASTE of EFFORT?

[Zozza 270]

And here I am - damn fool - about to embark on doing up a old 28 footer!  But I have learnt some DIY skills....the hard way.  Don't follow in my footsteps, unless you like being poor

[alibaba 71]

I'd be willing to bet- that spending 25k on a boat and then spending - as others say above-another 25k getting it up to living standard, would be WAY more expensive than spending 35k on a good boat in the first place. I've watched several of my yacht club members, over the years, buy a cheap boat as a do-up. it doesn't work

[Guest 48]

1 hour ago, alibaba said:

I'd be willing to bet- that spending 25k on a boat and then spending - as others say above-another 25k getting it up to living standard, would be WAY more expensive than spending 35k on a good boat in the first place. I've watched several of my yacht club members, over the years, buy a cheap boat as a do-up. it doesn't work

Echo that. Unless you vastly scale down the level you expect to raise your boat to, Also time that you say is free doesn’t turn out to be. Most cheap boats are just a long term second job. Mucking around in boats applies to those already seaworthy. 
That said, if you have Johnny Wrays boundless enthusiasm, have at it. Takes all kinds.

Also only hire a surveyor that’s pedantic in all facets and comes well recommended by bb fraternity.

May as well know what you’re up for.

[Enlightenment 18]

MANY THANKS!!!!!

Imagine if I hadn’t had these conversations, I would be a lot further up delusion creek and I am now. I’m becoming painfully aware of the extent of the bureaucracy and regulations in New Zealand.

I know the days have long gone when you could nail together a ferro cement boat with chicken wire and hope and head off overseas. Perhaps it is a karmic relationship, does anyone remember the French Canadian guy that built a ferro yacht and attempted to sail to Australia only to crash into a reef on the way? It was big news at the time 50 years ago, but it was instrumental in changing the rules. He and his crew, all inexperienced, snuck out of Auckland harbor without permits, thinking they could just sail away unprepared and get away with it. In those days they probably would have gotten away with it if they hadn't run onto the reef where I think there was mutiny and death. The boat owner lived in my aunt’s house 200 m from me, I remember him well and his enthusiasm was quite intense.

The reason I don’t appear to be very decisive is that my foremost motivation to access the environment far outweighs being the owner of a boat. I really love sailing and boat life but I am willing to use other methods if the boat is unviable. I would be a great owner because I’m very responsible and capable of doing maintenance. My primary focus is on getting access to and remaining in remote places to do creative work and it seems the boat option is by far the most logical and functional way to achieve that end.

Originally, I had planned to live on the house bus and park it near the locations then use a 3.8 m inflatable and a 20 hp outboard motor to gain access. But I feel the yacht option would nestle me in the heart of the environment where I could live remotely for longer periods of time which is in line with my aims for writing and videography and photography etc but still having living facilities Internet access and an office. Of course, I need to make compromises to find workable options.

Frank

Are trailersailer boats subject to the same regulations as Marina and moored yachts?

Perhaps I can find a loophole by living on the bus and doing missions on the trailersailer while keeping it on rented moorings when I move from location to location.

What I need access to Marina’s, Maybe not? Not sure.

Mattm

The electrical systems on a boat are extremely simple although, although they don’t seem that simple to Joe public. I do get your point about compliance and plugs. Chinese plugs are exactly the same as New Zealand plugs and have the same compliance.

I’m thinking to disconnect all outdated electrical systems if necessary and use modern plug-and-play foldable portable solar panels and power stations to plug appliances directly into, which I feel should meet regulations because they are not hard-wired into the boat.

The only gas appliance I need is a cooker, does that need to be hard fitted, specified distance to the bottle or can it have flexible rubber hoses as in a home installation? Whatever the case this cannot be extremely expensive even if it has to be certified.

As far as the plumbing goes if it is outdated which I doubt, this could also be portable and shouldn’t need a hard installation.

I actually have very little idea what it takes for a boat to be insured apart from it passing a survey. We need a VHF hardwired to the ships battery? Can navigation equipment simply be a laptop or cell phone? All this is very very simple stuff and certainly not rocket science, although the tradesperson wants you to believe it when they  charge you their rate to certify, which is fair.

My main concern is gaining access to locations where I can live aboard the boat, I don’t know if I can legally proceed on the water without insurance and sidestep going to the Marina altogether by living on the mooring. I have yet to establish if I can do antifouling in boat yards and what level of compliance I need to follow to meet their requirements. I’m certainly not trying to avoid taking responsibility, it’s just that I don’t want to pay needless expenses as the function of the boat is not a gin palace.

The backup generator would be a very small petrol generator in a sound-insulated box and would only be used on very few occasions when I’ve anchored far away from others in remote locations on days when it’s cloudy and the very robust solar was exhausted, perhaps I would need it to upload some files to the Internet to meet a deadline. Health issues are negligible.

Zozza

Good point, I am somewhat green when it comes to purchasing a boat in New Zealand even though I have done a reasonable amount of sailing in the past and as a lifetime design and industrial professional have done plenty of wood and fiberglass boat work and carried out refitting work on super yachts.

But if I was naïve I wouldn’t be having these conversations with you experienced owners and sailors.

Wow, 100K is a lot to spend on a small boat, but yeah, I get what you’re saying that it’s a potential trap waiting to happen to the unwary, we can learn fast when it’s too late.

Panther and the rest of you guys have given a lot of such valuable advice.

Pretty much most of the common (not high-end) Marine components and fittings are imported from China and they are the same very good quality available in the New Zealand market.

When people say Chinese rubbish they actually mean badly sourced products by importers! Yes there’s a lot of crap made and sold to the unwary in China but also all the good stuff is manufactured here too.

I agree the certified components probably need to be sourced locally for compliance reasons but the rest of it can be imported. There is a hell of a lot of work you can do on a boat yourself without the need to use a tradesperson and if the work is not good enough it will be revealed in the survey.

If my boat was a 25' Noelex or similar trailer sailor on a good trailer, basically a plastic box with good sales and rigging and whatever portable components I wanted to put inside it for navigation and foldable portable solar panels and PowerStation and portable appliances. Would this boat setup need to pass all kinds of regulatory hurdles? Would even need to have a survey to be insured? Again I'm not trying to be a Responsible I'm just trying to achieve my goal.

Thanks again.

 

[Black Panther 1,496]

Re navigation,  yes you can go portable  ( I went to Fiji and back using my cellphone).

[Frank 111]

Are trailer sailer boats subject to the same regulations as Marina and moored yachts? , yes if you enter a marina for a stay, and the same situation for insurance as a moored vessel. 

Perhaps I can find a loophole by living on the bus and doing missions on the trailer sailer while keeping it on rented moorings when I move from location to location.Doable I'm sure but once on a mooring same biofouling and insurance rules etc, also ensure the vessel has a holding tank.

What I need access to Marina’s, Maybe not? Not sure. No need unless you wanted to rent a berth for a period or use their travel lift/hardstand  

Of course with a trailer sailer you have now added the on-road cost and maintenance etc of the the trailer, plus the need to use boat ramp for launching using the van/house bus etc to back the vessel down the ramp which may or may not end well. You will need to pay for term storage of the van/bus and trailer while on the boat.

[Zozza 270]

14 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

MANY THANKS!!!!!

Imagine if I hadn’t had these conversations, I would be a lot further up delusion creek and I am now. I’m becoming painfully aware of the extent of the bureaucracy and regulations in New Zealand.

I know the days have long gone when you could nail together a ferro cement boat with chicken wire and hope and head off overseas. Perhaps it is a karmic relationship, does anyone remember the French Canadian guy that built a ferro yacht and attempted to sail to Australia only to crash into a reef on the way? It was big news at the time 50 years ago, but it was instrumental in changing the rules. He and his crew, all inexperienced, snuck out of Auckland harbor without permits, thinking they could just sail away unprepared and get away with it. In those days they probably would have gotten away with it if they hadn't run onto the reef where I think there was mutiny and death. The boat owner lived in my aunt’s house 200 m from me, I remember him well and his enthusiasm was quite intense.

The reason I don’t appear to be very decisive is that my foremost motivation to access the environment far outweighs being the owner of a boat. I really love sailing and boat life but I am willing to use other methods if the boat is unviable. I would be a great owner because I’m very responsible and capable of doing maintenance. My primary focus is on getting access to and remaining in remote places to do creative work and it seems the boat option is by far the most logical and functional way to achieve that end.

Originally, I had planned to live on the house bus and park it near the locations then use a 3.8 m inflatable and a 20 hp outboard motor to gain access. But I feel the yacht option would nestle me in the heart of the environment where I could live remotely for longer periods of time which is in line with my aims for writing and videography and photography etc but still having living facilities Internet access and an office. Of course, I need to make compromises to find workable options.

Frank

Are trailersailer boats subject to the same regulations as Marina and moored yachts?

Perhaps I can find a loophole by living on the bus and doing missions on the trailersailer while keeping it on rented moorings when I move from location to location.

What I need access to Marina’s, Maybe not? Not sure.

Mattm

The electrical systems on a boat are extremely simple although, although they don’t seem that simple to Joe public. I do get your point about compliance and plugs. Chinese plugs are exactly the same as New Zealand plugs and have the same compliance.

I’m thinking to disconnect all outdated electrical systems if necessary and use modern plug-and-play foldable portable solar panels and power stations to plug appliances directly into, which I feel should meet regulations because they are not hard-wired into the boat.

The only gas appliance I need is a cooker, does that need to be hard fitted, specified distance to the bottle or can it have flexible rubber hoses as in a home installation? Whatever the case this cannot be extremely expensive even if it has to be certified.

As far as the plumbing goes if it is outdated which I doubt, this could also be portable and shouldn’t need a hard installation.

I actually have very little idea what it takes for a boat to be insured apart from it passing a survey. We need a VHF hardwired to the ships battery? Can navigation equipment simply be a laptop or cell phone? All this is very very simple stuff and certainly not rocket science, although the tradesperson wants you to believe it when they  charge you their rate to certify, which is fair.

My main concern is gaining access to locations where I can live aboard the boat, I don’t know if I can legally proceed on the water without insurance and sidestep going to the Marina altogether by living on the mooring. I have yet to establish if I can do antifouling in boat yards and what level of compliance I need to follow to meet their requirements. I’m certainly not trying to avoid taking responsibility, it’s just that I don’t want to pay needless expenses as the function of the boat is not a gin palace.

The backup generator would be a very small petrol generator in a sound-insulated box and would only be used on very few occasions when I’ve anchored far away from others in remote locations on days when it’s cloudy and the very robust solar was exhausted, perhaps I would need it to upload some files to the Internet to meet a deadline. Health issues are negligible.

Zozza

Good point, I am somewhat green when it comes to purchasing a boat in New Zealand even though I have done a reasonable amount of sailing in the past and as a lifetime design and industrial professional have done plenty of wood and fiberglass boat work and carried out refitting work on super yachts.

But if I was naïve I wouldn’t be having these conversations with you experienced owners and sailors.

Wow, 100K is a lot to spend on a small boat, but yeah, I get what you’re saying that it’s a potential trap waiting to happen to the unwary, we can learn fast when it’s too late.

Panther and the rest of you guys have given a lot of such valuable advice.

Pretty much most of the common (not high-end) Marine components and fittings are imported from China and they are the same very good quality available in the New Zealand market.

When people say Chinese rubbish they actually mean badly sourced products by importers! Yes there’s a lot of crap made and sold to the unwary in China but also all the good stuff is manufactured here too.

I agree the certified components probably need to be sourced locally for compliance reasons but the rest of it can be imported. There is a hell of a lot of work you can do on a boat yourself without the need to use a tradesperson and if the work is not good enough it will be revealed in the survey.

If my boat was a 25' Noelex or similar trailer sailor on a good trailer, basically a plastic box with good sales and rigging and whatever portable components I wanted to put inside it for navigation and foldable portable solar panels and PowerStation and portable appliances. Would this boat setup need to pass all kinds of regulatory hurdles? Would even need to have a survey to be insured? Again I'm not trying to be a Responsible I'm just trying to achieve my goal.

Thanks again.

 

If you have labour skills, woodwork fibreglassing skills, you are ahead of the game if you want to do a "do up"... it will still be expensive but maybe you won't have to busk till dawn with your ukulele

[Enlightenment 18]

Frank

Thanks, that’s enlightening, you say boats need to be insured when entering a marina for a stay, so the insurance regs apply to vessels wanting to birth and enter certain zones at marinas, but uninsured boats can pump gas and have access to some facilities as long as the do not enter those zones. Something like this? I am fully intending to insure the boat but need to understand parameters.

You mention, once on a mooring same biofouling and insurance rules etc.

Does this insurance rule apply to privately owned moorings? For example, a trailersailer needs to be insured to moor anywhere in NZ? Interesting and logical stuff I guess incase the boat breaks free or sinks or creates circumstance that become a financial and ecological burden to others.

Gone are the days when you could chuck a couple of engine blocks into the bay and tie a rope and buoy to it--- so many boat owners abandoned their boats to sink on their moorings. If you do that now someone’s going to come knocking on your door bearing a hefty fine with all sorts of costs and liabilities attached?

with a trailer sailer you have now added the on-road cost and maintenance etc of the the trailer.

Tandem braked trailers can be very pricey but can be purchased astutely. I have seen tired old trailersailers sold for 3k sitting on 10k trailers, its just that the owners were focused on the boat unaware that the prize was the trailer when they priced it! On road costs are negligible but storage and parking costs soon mount up. My strategy is to leave the vehicles on the properties of family members and collogues and launch from within an e-bike ride from there, Buckland’s Beach, Coromandel, Northshore, Matapouri and Northland etc. Should be ok BUT!!!!

YEA, who has seen the GREENHORN boatowners YouTube videos, sure are a lot of fun vids there launching and boat ramp specials. Backing is my specialty, I always volunteer whether it be at the ramp or rubbish dump. Never done it with a bus though.

As I am doing documentaries, as a matter of course I am wanting to cooperate with local and national sponsors to fund the projects and ease access of the creative process in return for credits etc.

Zozza

HAHAHA LOVEIT 

I am redoubling my determination to find a boat that is going to shock by meeting my budget! Interesting challenge!

No way on god’s green earth am I going to get sucked into investing in a do up!!!! I have too much experience as a project manager allocating clients’ money on design and build ventures, over a lifetime learning every day about materials tech and all forms of manufacturing process. Even though I sadly lack the specialist experience of a boat surveyor, we see through the same x-ray eyes from a logical materials technology point of view.

Wishfully I do want to buy a quality boat, hopefully with a recent survey, as close to turn key as possible. I don’t mind doing upgrades myself. It being a boat there will always be a steady stream of maintenance and what you postpone today will double tomorrow.

I will discover what fits in my price in the coming months after landing in Auckland.

Being so open people mistake me for a dreamer, actually I am very much a realist! Yes, the original purchase price target was 35 to 40’ and now it 32 to 35’ and now considering a trailersailer.

My perspective is quite different from most boat buyers, the prize is not so much owning a boat as much as spending 5 or so years accessing the wilderness for my documentary work.

Safety is the absolute consideration, then boat user-friendliness, then comfort, then other considerations like resale value and the responsibility of maintaining the boats lifespan – so many boats are being scrapped and this is a burden on the environment.

Whatever I eventually purchase, a 40’ dreamboat or an 18’ trailersailer will be interesting to see, but it absolutely must not become a liability that derails my purpose.

Of course, it would be optimal to buy a boat that I can birth in marinas from time to time and have a yarn with other boaties but that is not essential.

These questions will be answered soon enough, we will see what boat options are on the cards.

Yes, looking for a bargain--- who isn't? NO, I (HOPE) won’t fall into the trap of buying a DOG and not an actual boat.

Why do I keep hearing barking?

Best Wishes to all, Adam.

[Enlightenment 18]

 On my 14th Birthday, a gift from my mum.

[Enlightenment 18]

I arrive in Auckland next week and would like to buy you a beer, I would really appreciate some straighteners and pointers and a chat about boats and stuff. If someone has time please message me on this app,

Cheers.

[Enlightenment 18]

Just to let anyone who was interested know I ended up purchasing a motorhome and a 

Pelin caribou 20 trailer sailer which in the end I think will serve me for my documentary work. Although a keeler would be lovely I backed off after finding out about the incredible amount of regulations that come with boat ownership these days. Thanks for the advice from the group, you helped me a lot!

[eruptn 78]

Good call, looks like you may have already found the Rotorua Lakes….

[Black Panther 1,496]

Never been really sure about trailer boats

[Brien 21]

Swell landing!

[Steve Pope 243]

3 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Never been really sure about trailer boats

I've seen a similar scene with 3 offroad bikes on a bike trailer, front end secure, rear end, not so much, the bikes weight will be adequate!! Yeah Nah!!

[Steve Pope 243]

On 27/04/2023 at 8:07 PM, Enlightenment said:

Just to let anyone who was interested know I ended up purchasing a motorhome and a 

Pelin caribou 20 trailer sailer which in the end I think will serve me for my documentary work. Although a keeler would be lovely I backed off after finding out about the incredible amount of regulations that come with boat ownership these days. Thanks for the advice from the group, you helped me a lot!

Having used a Davidson M20 many years ago as "caravan", when on the road between sailing venues. I have often thought with a double cab ute I might just do it again, Waikarimoana???

[Enlightenment 18]

That's a unique way of running a red light, Transport department will issue a ticket for that infringement for sure

[Guest 48]

This is the new Front launch. Wasn’t going fast enough for distance to ramp. 

[aardvarkash10 866]

I have an acquaintance who owned a 6m fishing fizz boat.  Pauanui based.  It rained for a couple of days and looked like it would continue, so they hitched up the boat trailer with the uncovered boat (hint as to conclusion) and headed off over the Kopu hill.

Coming down the other side, 2 days of rainwater washed forward in the boat hull and the resulting loss of steerage in the tow vehicle caused a derailment into the bank and an underwear failure.

He can almost laugh about it now.

[Frank 111]

20 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Never been really sure about trailer boats

No biggie, that's a best practice launch technique in the US, just check out the videos  at Boat Ramp Fail