Harbourmaster warns boaties maust have wreck-removal insurance

[ex Elly 243]

Wrecked uninsured boats: Expensive clean-ups an issue for Northland

Two yachties rescued after they sailed into an island off Northland’s east coast must pay for clean-up costs for their vessel’s wreckage.

Lyle said the incident was the third this year of a type becoming a big issue for Northland.

Lyle said too many people were willing to risk sailing an uninsured boat while oblivious to the enormous costs they would face if their boat got wrecked - often more than the boat was worth.

The two men on the Moana Nui, understood to be from Whangaroa, were not inexperienced sailors but their boat was uninsured.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/uninsured-boats-getting-wrecked-expensive-clean-ups-an-issue-for-northland/RCN5QHEE65EBXOVVVIVUFEZX3E/

 

[waikiore 462]

Yet another Piver heading to Davy Jones locker. Almost identical situation 10 years ago when one piled up on the Hen, unfortunately that owner died of a heart attack afterwards.

[aardvarkash10 1,085]

2 hours ago, waikiore said:

Yet another Piver heading to Davy Jones locker.

So not only uninsured, but uninsurable.

[K4309 395]

Bit of pseudo-legal going on in that article.

Person in authority makes statement that sounds like it is mandatory for all boats to have insurance.

There isn't any legal requirement to have insurance.

Especially not 'wreck insurance'. I've never heard of it until that article.

It is correct that you have to pay to have a wreck of yours removed from the environment. But how you manage that is up to you. You could just pay cash if you wanted. Or do it yourself. I've helped two owners of wrecked boats do it themselves. Just because people don't have insurance doesn't mean they are not responsible citizens.

One of the boats I helped clean up after being wrecked, the owner lost his business and fairly much everything due to the covid lockdowns. He was a good, honest citizen though. He lost his boat as well, but put in the work to clean the environment and dispose of the remains properly. They other guy I helped was getting criticised and had complaints to the council for driving his dump truck on the beach. Err, how else do you want him to remove his wrecked boat? Wait till it's smashed to smithereens and try and pick up the splinters? People will bitch about everything and do nothing to help.

Sure, there is logic in having insurance, and it would make life very easy for the Harbour Master. I have insurance. But implying that having 'wreck insurance' is a legal requirement is marginal. As is the implication that anyone that chooses to 'self insure' is somehow morally bankrupt.

The underlying and wider social and environmental problem is that there is no legal way to easily dispose of end of life boats. They just sit on moorings till they break off and sink, or get given away to some unsuspecting dreamer who go and wreck them. There are FB pages giving away boats now. Some serviceable and usable boats are being given away. That is the issue. The HM whining about wreck insurance is just a distraction.

[harrytom 689]

Should be condition of owning a yacht/motorboat/car etc minimum 3rd party.

[Black Panther 1,745]

The underlying social problem is many boats simply cannot get insurance while others face often ridiculous and expensive hurdles.

[K4309 395]

27 minutes ago, harrytom said:

Should be condition of owning a yacht/motorboat/car etc minimum 3rd party.

That would be inconsistent with requirements of owning a car.

You don't have to have insurance for a car, so why a boat? And there is far far more social cost with uninsured car drivers doing a runner and not putting things right when they cause damage.

People conflate needing to pay for damage you cause with needing to have insurance. That is a nonsense. You just need to be able to pay for the damage you cause. How you pay for that is entirely up to you.

All the money you have spent in your life on insurance products could go into investment accounts, and you use that to pay for any damage you cause. Avoids paying for insurance co overheads, inefficiencies and shareholder dividends. That is just one example of how you can provision to pay for damage. There is a pre-conception that insurance is the only way to address the risk. It isn't. Granted that it is one of the easiest ways, and one of the most common ways. It isn't necessarily the best way, and not for everyone.

Another example, I have life insurance. My good mate doesn't. He owns 4 rentals, I don't. If he carks it, his missus can sell a rental and his kids are looked after. If I cark it, I need the life insurance policy. The logic that all boats must have insurance would be the same as saying all people with kids must have life insurance.

I'd imagine if you required compulsory insurance for all yachts, you would also need an ownership register and licensing. Collectively that would add substantial cost. And it still wont do anything to address derelict boats busting off moorings and getting wrecked every time there is a bit of a NE blow. It would just be a new way of shuffling money around. The unintended consequence would probably be that the responsible boat owners wont bother going and cleaning up their own boats, as per the 2 examples I gave, cause they've already paid for someone else to do it via insurance.

[K4309 395]

PS, since we are on the topic, having an ownership register and visible registration numbers (like as for jet skis) would probably be far more effective in stopping people do a runner who's boats have caused damage. It would also go some way to enabling the Harbour Master to track down errant boat owners. That is the Harbour Master's real problem. Being able to prove ownership and locate owners.

Having insurance would be as useful as tits on a bull of the HM still can't find the owner to claim on the insurance.

[aardvarkash10 1,085]

1 hour ago, K4309 said:

That would be inconsistent with requirements of owning a car.

Only here in NZ.  Yes yes, I get that's where we are, but we are an exception in grown up countries.

The HM is only partly correct, as is everyone commenting.  The problem arises from each of the points made.

Voluntary insurance in an environment where there is no registration regime, where many boats are poorly maintained and inexpensive, where licensing is non-existent, where reparation/remediation costs are high, where insurance options are few and far between, and where enforcement is lax, is bound to be taken up by the minority.

 

[harrytom 689]

4 hours ago, K4309 said:

That would be inconsistent with requirements of owning a car.

Should be condition of owning a yacht/motorboat/car etc minimum 3rd party. Exactly as I wrote it.Car is in the sentence

 

Key word is "should"

[Jon 407]

Should be included in mooring fees

[Black Panther 1,745]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

Should be included in mooring fees

This has merit

[Guest 129]

Third party should be compulsory. Third party does not cover you if some uninsured boat takes you out. so, first statement.

Car argument  is not apples with apples. Cars are relatively easy to recycle & on terra firma. Not so boats.

Also industry already exist for cars. 

Paid my premium (full), but ? mark over my Lithium DIY install. And my install is more transparent  with 10x more user monitorable than the MG4!

Arse forward world we live in.

[ex Elly 243]

Insurance companies not insuring is why most of the boats have gone from the swing moorings.

Insurance companies have ruined the kiwi pastime of affordable DIY boating!!

 

[harrytom 689]

2 hours ago, Guest said:

Third party should be compulsory. Third party does not cover you if some uninsured boat takes you out. so, first statement.

When we had a totasl loss,the vessel that broke its mooring and dragged on to mine.In the process,share weight,my mooring let go. Asked if they could retrieve money from other even though uninsured. Act of god came in to play.

[Black Panther 1,745]

God again, she's got a lot to answer for.

[Psyche 775]

We are led by people who think all problems can be solved with another rule.

There are at least 120 derelict boats in Auckland alone, which is a result of the cost of maintenance and the loss of interest in old boats. Owners die, families dont care etc. The solution is a wrecking facility, one that is not profit motivated to get rid of the ever increasing numbers of unwanted vessels. I was involved in helping the harbour master turn a mid sized wooden boat into a pile of scrap, it took an hour and it was all gone into a skip except for the keel and some metal to the scrap dealer. Fibreglass boats might take a bit longer, but it wasnt that difficult.  

[K4309 395]

20 minutes ago, Psyche said:

We are led by people who think all problems can be solved with another rule.

This.

And yes, I fully agree the solution is a wrecking facility. Not more rules. 

Requiring compulsory insurance wont do anything for the many hundreds of already abandoned boats around the district.  Erm, they are already abandoned...

It wont do anything for all the people who's boat is at end of life, and want to get rid of it in some sort of responsible way. There are a lot of people that are in that camp. Currently, the only option is to give it away to someone else. That doesn't actually solve the problem of the end of life boat, it just shifts it to a different person.

For all those people thinking insurance will be the saviour, go and have a look at the FB group "sitting their rotting, help save me". Then tell me which insurance co will take the liability on these boats. PS, there are some 'bargain' boats you can pick up for a box of beer or less.

Sitting there rotting,help save me | Groups | Facebook

[K4309 395]

Well maintained Raven in Westhaven, open to (any) offers. It's berth is given if anyone want to go check it out:

I have a Raven 26 at Westhaven and although the engine starts stalls when in drive, been told low compression on the engine

in regular use until then antifoul 12 months ago

2 mains , 3 Jibs , Furler , electric Windlass , tiller autopilot and all other bits

looking to sell anyone interested?

[K4309 395]

Genisis 33 in Whiti, got lots of interest, moved on to a new owner but not outside of the environment:

BOAT NOW SOLD -

I have a Genesis 33 in whitianga moored in back bay.

Mooring rent is $50 week,

Boat has soft spots on top in several areas as wood only.

Hull is good as it’s GOP. Needs an anti foul and a heck of a good clean up. Engine is a 275 ford Sabre turbo runs mint. No batteries atm. Beautiful boat that we need gone please make us a reasonable offer.

This is an older pic and is worse condition but will try to get better photos when I can.