Yachting NZ to be investigated

[ex Elly 246]

The Moth bare hull is $72K
https://mackayboats.com/index.cfm/shop/bm-v3-bieker-moth-package-inc-foils-trolley-top-cover/

You could build a Cherub for $20K. There is a 3 year old one here for $10K
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/centreboard/listing/5084533868

But you are not comparing like for like, since the Moth is professionally built full carbon vs Cherub home built with plywood hull. Plus the Moth foils would add a lot to the cost.

 

[Black Panther 1,763]

Go racing for 120k or go racing for 10k?

[ex Elly 246]

Which is more exciting - skimming across water at 15 knots, or flying above the water at 30knots?

[Ex Machina 390]

You can’t beat the RNZYS youth program for bang for buck . It has churned out a shed load of pro and semi pro sailors that usually go on to work in the marine industry and race locally or overseas . It lifts everyone’s game and NZ’s standing as a maritime nation par excellence .

Kudos too to those that take the Olympic path , that’s some dedication for sure .

[aardvarkash10 1,101]

4 hours ago, ex Elly said:

Which is more exciting - skimming across water at 15 knots, or flying above the water at 30knots?

Competing and possibly winning are not related to speed.

Compare trials motorcycling to GP.  Both motorcycle sports, different expectations.

If outright speed is the measure, drag racing is the ultimate motor sport.  IMO, this is not necessarily so.

 

[mcp 34]

11 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

 

Compare trials motorcycling to GP.  Both motorcycle sports, different expectations.

True, but one millions of people watch every weekend, because it is seen as the pinnacle of motorcycle road racing and the other very rarely seen.

[Psyche 789]

Reasonable foiling moths can be had second hand 15-25k so not unobtainable but like all gear sports, if you want to be at the front of the pack youll need the best (newest) equipment.

Back to YNZ, it's easy to be critical of an organisation if they purport to advocate on behalf of a something youre involved with and dont live up to expectations. But at least YNZ are doing something and they do exist which is more than the other national organisations representing yachties of which there are none that I know of lol! If people want YNZ to change then the answer is "get involved" write letters, turn up to meetings, lobby your club, the local representatives etc. We might grumble about YNZ levy but it is nothing in the boat ownership expenses bin and no one is forcing you to join a yacht club.  

[Priscilla II 444]

Crikey you really do get a lot of choice regarding trim control options for your money😀

[eruptn 105]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/540797/troubled-waters-for-yachting-nz

Some more information 

[ex Elly 246]

Troubled waters for Yachting NZ

Yachting New Zealand is the country's first body to be dragged before the new Sport Integrity Commission, in what is uncharted territory

But beneath the podium it's not all smooth sailing.

Editor of Sail World, Richard Gladwell, said it was nowhere near as bad as it looks, and "Yachting New Zealand is always the whipping boy".

"It doesn't really matter what they do, they're always the one at fault," he said.

That's a perception forged out of his history as not only an Olympic triallist, but his work from 2004 to 2012 on the board of Yachting New Zealand.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thedetail/540797/troubled-waters-for-yachting-nz

 

[Psyche 789]

I read the act, its pretty vague. This is going to be a legal gravy train

[boxonsmash 6]

So one of  Yachting NZ's managements  besties says,  " it's nowhere near as bad as it looks.   Well that's the problem, it's actually a lot worse than it looks.

The speed with which  Sports Integrity Commission got into its work says a lot.  And I'll believe YNZ initiated their internal inquiry without being forced to do so when much higher authorities than YNZ say so.

And it says a lot  about YNZ that these two inquiries are needed after they had seen such dreadful results from the recent inquiries into Rowing NZ,  Cycling NZ and  Canoe Racing  NZ.

 

The other issue of major concern to the higher authorities in NZ sport funding and management is where are all the Olympic sailors these days ?  The cupboard is  bare !

There was virtually no competition for many of the slots The 49er, the  49er FX and  the Nacra each had just one boat to select from, the ILCA 7 just two, The ILCA 6 was selected on the basis of being "emerging talent" as was the women's iQ Foil. Was there anyone else ?  The two  iQ Kite sailors were both selected after protracted legal wrangling , one of them proving that he had indeed met all necessary selection criteria. Higher sporting authorities must have shook their heads in disbelief. 

After so many Olympics leaving sailing slots empty the cupboards were very bare in these classes . And now the 49ers and  Nacra cat are the same.

 Wasn't YNZ meant to foster Olympic sailing ?  Things are indeed a lot worse than some might hope.

[ex Elly 246]

Actually, the 49ers had 2 podium capable teams, but one got injured.

 

[boxonsmash 6]

Well it's just fortunate that after the injury there was ONE other boat left to select.   Had the injury been to crew from the 49er FX, the Nacra, or the ILCA 6 there would have been NOBODY to select for those classes.  [ Barring some face saving and shameful chook raffle  exercise  by YNZ ] 

Were it not for the two sailors selected on the basis of being "emerging talent" the number of " High Performance " staff on YNZ's payroll would nearly have matched the number of sailors sent to the Olympics.

Which is another issue clearly obvious to higher authorities in NZ sport funding and management.

The cupboard is bare allwright

 

[lebleaux 11]

Mr boxonsmah,

Methinks you have an axe to grind, did you, or someone close to you perhaps, miss out on selection for something in days gone by.

[boxonsmash 6]

Mr lebleaux,

I can assure you , I have never been an Olympic  hopeful nor has anyone close to me.  Other than the Kawau or Russell boating clubs when I'm away cruising at  Christmas I haven't been inside a yacht club since 2017/18.  But having had a few yacht clubs forward my cash to YNZ over the years I am entitled to comment on these matters.

Firstly I wholly support the selection of all those who sailed for NZ at the Paris Olympics.  YNZ needs to get a strong dose of reality and take up every Olympic sailing slot one of our sailors wins.  As most other nations do.

The facts speak for themselves.  Had YNZ  not gotten extremely novel and creative with their selection policy for the Paris Olympics it would have been the smallest Olympic sailing team NZ had sent in a very long time.   Only 4 crew could be selected on conventional terms, the 49er, the Nacra, the ILCA 7 and mens IQ Foil.   That can only be described as " the cupboard is bare".  It cannot possibly be described as "the cupboard is bursting open ".   Can it ?   YNZ  would have been very embarrassed to have arrived at Paris with more "low performance staff"  and "slow coaches" than sailors.

So they got a bit imaginative. . They created and selected  a 49er FX crew in a most unusual way.  Likewise they  selected The ILCA6 sailor and women's IQ Foiler in a similarly novel way. Were these selections based on the best interests of the sport  or for face saving reasons for YNZ.  A bit of both I suspect.  But YNZ  couldn't quite bring themselves to be open about all this. They hid behind the curtain of, "we never discuss individual selections". And why did  YNZ fight so hard to deny the mens and womens IQ Kite sailors ?  Why couldn't they be open about all this and say, we have a new policy if we have a slot we send the best we've got. Every sailor I know would have screamed hurray !  Me as loud as any.

Any analysis of YNZ's non use of Olympic slots show it is heavily biased against woman sailors. This is very definitely against the policy of both World Sailing and the International Olympic movements encouragement of woman to participate in  all Olympic sports. Hence all the mixed crew boats  Likewise World  Sailing has an '' Emerging Nations Policy " listing  70 sailors from lesser sailing nations providing these sailors with training camps and financial support to attend Olympic qualifying events We can't even send sailors who have qualified. 

If that was the best shot you can fire Mr  lebleaux you need to be a bit more creative in your analysis.

[lebleaux 11]

Fair enough. I wasn't actually trying to 'fire a shot', but I do see how it may have come across that way.

What I was trying to understand was that if I read this thread then I would conclude that YNZ is fundamentally broken, needs a cleanout and a full refresh. Yet 5 minutes on the interweb tells me that NZ has one sailing medals in 10 of the last 11 Olympics, with the gap coming in 2000 - 20 years ago. If I was responsible for that record I would be incredibly proud of it.

I understand from the thread that there is a review process underway but surely that process should be with the intent of making YNZ better, not tearing it apart.

So ... how do I equate this track record with your very vociferous criticism, presented at a level of detail way beyond what I would expect from an interested bystander.

Methinks you have an axe to grind.

[Black Panther 1,763]

I'm not that excited about it anymore, but I don't get the fixation on Olympics.  I think our youth would be better served by a wide ranging,  affordable, inclusive program to get kids out on the water.

[boxonsmash 6]

Much the same could be said of Rowing NZ, Cycling  NZ and Canoe Sports NZ. They kept winning medals. But should that have absolved these bodies for all for their subsequently exposed misconduct and failings towards the athletes and the sports they are supposed to serve ?  And the Sports Integrity Commission inquiry into YNZ commenced before YNZ's own internal inquiry was complete. Can you join the dots Mr  lebleaux ? Some very grave complaints have been laid in front of the Sports Integrity Commission. If proven these complaints could have very serious consequences.

I had lunch today with the  Commodore of one of NZ's most successful yacht club's.  You took the words right out of his mouth, his opinion was that YNZ needed a major restructure.  His opinion was like mine, that if a NZ sailor wins an Olympic slot we make use of it.  Prior to the Paris Olympics YNZ was in little more than face saving and damage control mode, trying to find or manufacture crew to send to the Olympics.  The Olympic slots abandoned by YNZ were  for a while so often taken up by Spanish sailors they became  jokingly known as YNZ's " Spanish slots".

I do think our yacht clubs do a very very  good job getting kids out on the water  And these kids  should have a reasonable expectation that if they win a slot to the Olympics, they or someone better from NZ should be sent. Not a kid from another  country. Get YNZ to explain that one to you. Our sailors are entitled to that sporting progression for themselves as of right. And our younger sailors are entitled to these Kiwi sporting role models to look up to. They should not be denied such sporting progression or role models  by the arbitrary whims of YNZ. . Perhaps these issues are some of the reasons why the cupboard is so bare?

How on earth can YNZ  have denied  Paris Olympic  selection to 2 sailors who both subsequently proved after legal action that  they were worthy of selection ?  And both went.   Meanwhile 4 other sailors had been selected well outside all normal selection criteria.  Get YNZ to explain the logic to all that to you if they can. It might be very difficult for them.

I have owned sailboats most of my life, won a few yacht races and taken my own boat offshore a number of times  I feel  that entitles me to express an opinion on sailing matters.  Especially if my opinions are based on  matters and facts all thoroughly within the public domain. Indeed most of the facts around this issue can be accessed via links on others earlier posts  in this chain.  A person can express an opinion  without being accused without foundation of having a personal axe to grind.  Perhaps I am batting for all those kids the my lunchtime companion believed had been badly let down by a YNZ he felt very definitely needed a major restructure. 

 

[harrytom 696]

4 hours ago, boxonsmash said:

Perhaps I am batting for all those kids the my lunchtime companion believed had been badly let down by a YNZ he felt very definitely needed a major restructure. 

Late 70s a small group of us at school were constantly getting detention for failing to turn up to Wednesday afternoon sports. A new teacher arrived and took the time to find out why werent attendiung. Next minute it was arranged to met at beach at 1.00pm till 3.00pm to sail our P/,sailing dinghies etc none of us went on to greater things . Typical rugby based high school.