Jump to content

New Auckland Bylaws - have your say


Recommended Posts

I have replied with this :

 

I want the speed limit decreased on several grounds which are set out in numbered paragraphs below. I am a frequent user of the Waitemata harbour and make these submissions on many years of recreational experience on the harbour:

(1) Increasing the speed does not increase safety - it makes it worse. The councils primary consideration in any speed changes should be that of safety (in terms of decreasing risk of collision) and any wake/planing considerations should be secondary to that. I have seen many many incidents which nearly resulted in collisions.

(2) It is evident in my experience that many recreation users of the harbour are not aware of the precedence that maritime laws and bylaws take. The 5 knots within 50m of another boat takes precedence over the 12 knot limit, but many boats owners on boat the Waitemata harbour and Tamaki River are not aware of this and seem to think the 12 knots overrides the 5 knot rule. I know this because I have "educated" several power boaters in recent months and there response (incorrectly) is that they are allowed to do 12 knots.

(3) Speed Creep: Currently many boats see 12 knots and creep a bit above it and the resulting false speed ceiling is in reality really about 15-18 knots. By making it 18 knots the speed creep now really becomes more like 22-25 knots which is extremely fast for this busy part of the harbour.

(4) Lack of Enforcement - directly related to paragraph 4 is the complete lack of enforcement. From time to time I see the harbour master, and the occasional verbal warning issued, but I have never heard of enforcement action. The harbour master is rarely seen.

Also on the issue of lack of enforcement - I have tendered video evidence to the Harbour Master to 5 knot speed breaches. Harbour Master replied to me that its not admissible as it would not prove the speed/distance breach - this is not true as experienced captains can give a speed/distance estimated based on expert opinion evidence (Section 25 / Evidence Act 2006). In summary reduce the speed limit to 10 knots with zero tolerance enforcement is the submission. Anything else will result in increased risk of collision.

Did someone say the had the HM take action on video evidence? They wouldn't entertain it when I rang them - didn't even want to see the video.

Granted that wake causes accidents - but generally not as bad as what happens when boats collide.

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bigal.nz said:

I have replied with this :

 

I want the speed limit decreased on several grounds which are set out in numbered paragraphs below. I am a frequent user of the Waitemata harbour and make these submissions on many years of recreational experience on the harbour:

(1) Increasing the speed does not increase safety - it makes it worse. The councils primary consideration in any speed changes should be that of safety (in terms of decreasing risk of collision) and any wake/planing considerations should be secondary to that. I have seen many many incidents which nearly resulted in collisions.

(2) It is evident in my experience that many recreation users of the harbour are not aware of the precedence that maritime laws and bylaws take. The 5 knots within 50m of another boat takes precedence over the 12 knot limit, but many boats owners on boat the Waitemata harbour and Tamaki River are not aware of this and seem to think the 12 knots overrides the 5 knot rule. I know this because I have "educated" several power boaters in recent months and there response (incorrectly) is that they are allowed to do 12 knots.

(3) Speed Creep: Currently many boats see 12 knots and creep a bit above it and the resulting false speed ceiling is in reality really about 15-18 knots. By making it 18 knots the speed creep now really becomes more like 22-25 knots which is extremely fast for this busy part of the harbour.

(4) Lack of Enforcement - directly related to paragraph 4 is the complete lack of enforcement. From time to time I see the harbour master, and the occasional verbal warning issued, but I have never heard of enforcement action. The harbour master is rarely seen.

Also on the issue of lack of enforcement - I have tendered video evidence to the Harbour Master to 5 knot speed breaches. Harbour Master replied to me that its not admissible as it would not prove the speed/distance breach - this is not true as experienced captains can give a speed/distance estimated based on expert opinion evidence (Section 25 / Evidence Act 2006). In summary reduce the speed limit to 10 knots with zero tolerance enforcement is the submission. Anything else will result in increased risk of collision.

Did someone say the had the HM take action on video evidence? They wouldn't entertain it when I rang them - didnt even want to see the video.

 

We had reason to contact the harbour master vessel in Tamaki river a few yrs ago due to the 50m 5knt rule,they happened to of gone past us ealier,called on vhf16 and they responded to vessel concerned. When we went past they were getting lecture on the ruless.Good outcome!.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, harrytom said:

We had reason to contact the harbour master vessel in Tamaki river a few yrs ago due to the 50m 5knt rule,they happened to of gone past us ealier,called on vhf16 and they responded to vessel concerned. When we went past they were getting lecture on the ruless.Good outcome!.

Yeah that is good, but after the fact if they are not around they didn't seem to be interested in following up when I rang. Didn't even want the video sent through. Perhaps it depends you get.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bigal.nz said:

Yeah that is good, but after the fact if they are not around they didn't seem to be interested in following up when I rang. Didn't even want the video sent through. Perhaps it depends you get.

Do we want an active water police like overseas??I have no problem if we do . Educate first then prosecute.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30/11/2020 at 6:20 AM, The big T said:

Retired Deodar sergeant on education versus fines - "after 3 fines they soon learn" 

"After 3 fines they soon learn" - I find it hard to believe that any got fined more than once.....

A request to Auckland harbor master reveals:

2019 - 11 fines issued in Tamaki River for speed > 5 knots (less than 1 per month)

2019 - 22 fines in Waitemata restricted speed zone

2019 - 0 fines for speed > 5 knots within 50m of another boat

I would prefer to see much more enforcement of the speed limits. 33 tickets for the whole year is pretty abysmal.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

CLOSING DATE FOR SUBMISSIONS IS FEB 14th so if you want a say get going or miss out.

A team (from a couple of local clubs and the AYBA) are having a chat with MarOps (council marine operations i.e.the H/M office) about aspects of it, moorings being a biggish part of this specific chat, in a few days so if you have anything else of serious concern speak now and I'll see if we can get into that as well.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget to make your submission this weekend or you can't complain when they raise the speed limit to 18kts, which is the current favored response. 

https://akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/navigation-safety-bylaw?tool=survey_tool&tool_id=navigation-bylaw

image.thumb.png.6d52466002ab9a60345812fd6e1f4881.png

 

My submission:

"Auckland Harbour is a small waterspace used by many vessels, often not following the expected east/west route of the harbour. 18knots is far to fast for untrained skippers to operate in very confined waters. Many private skippers do not follow the 5knots with 50m of a another vessel and pass within 20-30m at the current limit of 12knots. These skippers will now be passing at 18knots, creating very dangerous situations. Private vessels are growing in average size, meaning larger wakes and more force in collisions. The recent Americas Cup speed limit of 5 knots have shown how orderly and safe the harbour can be with a slower speed limit. Far safer than the average Sunday afternoon with large launches plowing their way up the Waitemata at 12knots, throwing a wall of water out behind them and driving close to other boats. I'd estimate that we have a vessel pass closer than 50m, at more than 5knots everytime we move in or out of the harbour. I recommend 8knots for private vessels, with 18knots allowed for commercial vessels due to them having licensed skippers. Yachts racing should be exempt for the speed restrictions."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Less emphasis on lifejackets and more on speed,distance judgement and wake creation .Most fizz boaters and newbie launchies have no idea of what 5 knots or 200 metres are. Agree with the police assessment . A fine is remembered long after the 'warning' has been laughed off.18 knots in restricted  and sometime  crowded waterway is ridiculous

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...