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Justifiable homicide?


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I'm confused.

Is the problem a jetski going too fast? what has that got to do with discussing the murdering of someone?

Jetski's are a known problem. There is also a known system of dealing with them. Getting all vigilante is one thing, and I understand the frustration around jetski's. But are you guys actually discussing the justification of homicide cause someone is going too fast on a jetski? What are you going to do? walk up to someone at the boat ramp and attack them with a filleting knife?

Just breath in, breath out, count to ten, and get some perspective....

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Interesting to note that all boats are at anchor, (not sure if that includes Dtwo's) yes the sea flea may piss you off re noise etc. but is he actually doing anything dangerous? I would have thought that the rules would / should apply when yachts / boats are under navigation. I saw something similar at Whakapirau, sea fleas zooming "safely" a spectator on the beach getting upset and agitated for no reasonable reason.

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8 minutes ago, Steve Pope said:

Interesting to note that all boats are at anchor, (not sure if that includes Dtwo's) yes the sea flea may piss you off re noise etc. but is he actually doing anything dangerous? I would have thought that the rules would / should apply when yachts / boats are under navigation. I saw something similar at Whakapirau, sea fleas zooming "safely" a spectator on the beach getting upset and agitated for no reasonable reason.

Well imagine if your kids are swimming around the back of the boat and the jetski comes around the front.  So yes, it's obviously dangerous.  It is also illegal and ignorant.

The 5 knot law applies 200m from shore and 50m from other vessels.  Clearly this guy doesn't know, doesn't care, or both.

And to calm down those who would suggest murder would be a disproportionate response, I'll spell it out:  the topic post was tongue-in-cheek.  Take a breath.

Breaking legs - too much?

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40 minutes ago, Dtwo said:

And to calm down those who would suggest murder would be a disproportionate response, I'll spell it out:  the topic post was tongue-in-cheek.  Take a breath.

Breaking legs - too much?

Apparently Trump was talkin tongue in check the other day too... ;-)

I've always thought it important to prove they are breaking navigation bylaws. How do you prove they are within 50 m of you? If you can throw an empty glass bottle and hit them, they'd def be within 50 m. Even if you miss, those empties float, and wont do well if it at high speed. Could damage their machine...

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11 hours ago, Fish said:

Apparently Trump was talkin tongue in check the other day too... ;-)

I've always thought it important to prove they are breaking navigation bylaws. How do you prove they are within 50 m of you? If you can throw an empty glass bottle and hit them, they'd def be within 50 m. Even if you miss, those empties float, and wont do well if it at high speed. Could damage their machine...

Proof? Thats easy, Section 25 Evidence Act - opinion evidence is admissible from experts. The court would readily accept evidence from a harbour master who would state there qualifications and experience then give evidence on a speed and distance estimate based on the video. Police can also prosecute speeding offences this way but it is rare these days. So the video and some S25 evidence would cover it nicely.

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12 hours ago, Dtwo said:

Well imagine if your kids are swimming around the back of the boat and the jetski comes around the front.  So yes, it's obviously dangerous.  It is also illegal and ignorant.

The 5 knot law applies 200m from shore and 50m from other vessels.  Clearly this guy doesn't know, doesn't care, or both.

And to calm down those who would suggest murder would be a disproportionate response, I'll spell it out:  the topic post was tongue-in-cheek.  Take a breath.

Breaking legs - too much?

Well said. The dangers are obvious.

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Personally I've never been too bothered by Jetski's, or by big launches making massive wakes. Seriously its not worth the heartburn or for that matter telling the world you'd like to kill people over it. Once I had some guy run his genset all night, someone else had their windwill running at full tit all night as well, yet another guy chucked his anchor over mine in fitzroy in a blow but you know what- it really doesnt matter in the grand scheme. 

A note on jetskies, most of these people are not "mariners" or "yachties" they are usually guys who ride them like motocross bikes.

 

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21 hours ago, Fish said:

What are you going to do? walk up to someone at the boat ramp and attack them with a filleting knife?

You escalated that quickly!!!

I didn't get that sort of vibe from this thread and I'm really not sure why you did?

That aside, a little person swimming behind the boat wouldn't stand a chance if this guy comes hurtling along unannounced.

I personally have nothing against jetskis and have even considered getting one myself for fishing (perfect for getting over the shallow bar where we keep our caravan) but they need to be operated sensibly so that they don't excessively impact on other peoples enjoyment of the water.

At our regular holiday spot I would say about 70% of the jetskis and 30% of the fizz boats are exceeding the 5 knot rule through the estuary where many people enjoy swimming and harvesting seafood.

I'm interested to find out the details of this incident...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/123872638/jetski-incident-appears-to-have-caused-death-of-man-found-in-river-police-say&ved=2ahUKEwjRtbTxg5LuAhUr7XMBHTBmDHoQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3CWzN4c4wsy11rbwtCq3vE

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The fizz boat I use,less wake 25knts than 5 knts but yep its not safe to do so,The jetskiers who armed with rods etc take things serious those that hang around beaches etc are the cowboys and need to be jumped on.

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they need to be operated sensibly so that they don't excessively impact on other peoples enjoyment of the water

I totally agree but here is the rub; other peoples enjoyment of the water might be different to ours. If you think about it there is the safety side and its just thoughtless to hoon around moored boats for that very reason.

Jestskies are a bit of an affront to birdsong in a quiet bay but to some people going for a burn on glassy water is their idea of a really good time and who am I to impose my values on them as long as they stick to sabres advice above.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Sabre said:

You escalated that quickly!!!

Facepalm! No, I didn't escalate it. The OT did. Did you not read the thread title? The 'Justifiable Homicide' bit?

Incase you are not aware, homicide means killing someone.

The question I posed, is what are you actually going to do? Are you actually going to go and kill someone. Having your morning coffee disturbed is not justification for homicide.

And is there a real safety issue? There is only a safety issue if there are people in the water. There wasn't... So all we are talking about is breaching a bylaw.

How many of you guys breach bylaws all the time? LJ's in dinghy is a bylaw...

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

Facepalm! No, I didn't escalate it. The OT did. Did you not read the thread title? The 'Justifiable Homicide' bit?

Incase you are not aware, homicide means killing someone.

If you took the title of this thread litterally then maybe you have had a little too much internet?

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

And is there a real safety issue? There is only a safety issue if there are people in the water. There wasn't... So all we are talking about is breaching a bylaw.

I know if it were me on that jetski I wouldnt be 100% confident that I would pick up on a small head or someone surfacing while snorkeling hence why there are rules around speeds close to shore and other boats.

There is plenty of water about for everyone so no need to be fanging it metres away from other boats.

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58 minutes ago, Sabre said:

If you took the title of this thread litterally then maybe you have had a little too much internet?

Maybe so. But language can be a funny thing. I often read what is written... 

There was a time when what was said was what was meant. I understand in these modern times of social media etc, that what is said often means something else. And what it means is up for personal interpretation, like black is white and what not.

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Dear Mr Sabre and Mr Fish,

Please excuse my presumption you are blokes, while I'm pretty sure you are we do live in the days of delicates and loveys who are offended if they aren't offended. So feel free to be offended for having your gender questioned if you feel the desire to do so.

May I remind you both, plus a few others and I include the Mods, that it wasn't that long ago someone else made a passing comment that to most intelligent people or those not too lazy they couldn't be arsed spending 5 seconds considering the comment in it's context before kicking off with your righteous and totally misguided indignation.

But I must give credit to Mr Fish, he is quite consistent and far more so than most, in being offended for what mostly appears to be for the sake of it. Mind you Mr Sabre, you've also had you moments.

To everyone else who piled on last time a comment like the one in question came up here, what a bunch of hypocrites who have just proven your moral outrage was f*ck all to do with the comment and all to do with who made it, as is becoming far to frequent on Crew. Get your sh*t together as your highly selective whining, bitching and moaning only makes you look like muppets.

And to answer the OP, in the days of sanity I'd think there would be the odd, very odd, occasion where yes it maybe justified but that's not really one of them, I'd suggest a beer can, emptied then refilled with water, to the side of the riders head should be enough to get the point across he's indeed an A Grade fuckwit. 

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17 minutes ago, KM... said:

Dear Mr Sabre and Mr Fish,

Please excuse my presumption you are blokes, while I'm pretty sure you are we do live in the days of delicates and loveys who are offended if they aren't offended. So feel free to be offended for having your gender questioned if you feel the desire to do so.

May I remind you both, plus a few others and I include the Mods, that it wasn't that long ago someone else made a passing comment that to most intelligent people or those not too lazy they couldn't be arsed spending 5 seconds considering the comment in it's context before kicking off with your righteous and totally misguided indignation.

But I must give credit to Mr Fish, he is quite consistent and far more so than most, in being offended for what mostly appears to be for the sake of it. Mind you Mr Sabre, you've also had you moments.

To everyone else who piled on last time a comment like the one in question came up here, what a bunch of hypocrites who have just proven your moral outrage was f*ck all to do with the comment and all to do with who made it, as is becoming far to frequent on Crew. Get your sh*t together as your highly selective whining, bitching and moaning only makes you look like muppets.

And to answer the OP, in the days of sanity I'd think there would be the odd, very odd, occasion where yes it maybe justified but that's not really one of them, I'd suggest a beer can, emptied then refilled with water, to the side of the riders head should be enough to get the point across he's indeed an A Grade fuckwit. 

Geez you have really out done yourself with that stunningly spectacular bit of KMism waffle! Well done you 👍

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KM got a ban for making reference to someone staring in a snuff movie. I actually think he has a legit point. The hypocrisy is deep in this one. Here this thread us asking for support to kill someone, cause they disturbed someones morning coffee. What is the difference?

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5 knots 50M thats all there is to it, I have witnessed  an oar been thrown at a similar jetski (it connected) much to the amusement of all observers, this was many years ago and of course the matter ended there.

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Guess the obvious thing to have done was catch his/her attention and explain the rules.Just incase he/she didnt know.

Currently any person in NZ can buy size vessel without any knowledge of seamanship or knowledge of rules.

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I chimed in because I’ve got history with these sorts of dickheads.

Many years ago it was a hot summers day about mid January, Saturday if I remember, and I wanted to go to the marina and replace the spreader covers on the yacht we had at the time, kids wanted to go to the beach.

So we compromise and sailed from PH to Waiheke, found a nice little bay, we were the only ones in the bay, kids had a swim and the admiral hoisted me up the rig, I was replacing the upper spreader ones when this jetskier launches off the beach and decides we need a demo on his skills, using us as one of his rounding marks.

The Admiral called him over nicely and tried to politely explain the situation and the 5kt rule. His response was that he had a very expensive holiday home in the bay so it was his bay and he could do whatever he wanted.

So the said admiral started taking photos of him and said she was going to inform the harbour master, it must have been a while ago as it was before registration numbers where required, (I still carry the heat seeking missiles just in case however)

But I’m trying to let it go, really I am !!!

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15 minutes ago, Jon said:

I chimed in because I’ve got history with these sorts of dickheads.

Many years ago it was a hot summers day about mid January, Saturday if I remember, and I wanted to go to the marina and replace the spreader covers on the yacht we had at the time, kids wanted to go to the beach.

So we compromise and sailed from PH to Waiheke, found a nice little bay, we were the only ones in the bay, kids had a swim and the admiral hoisted me up the rig, I was replacing the upper spreader ones when this jetskier launches off the beach and decides we need a demo on his skills, using us as one of his rounding marks.

The Admiral called him over nicely and tried to politely explain the situation and the 5kt rule. His response was that he had a very expensive holiday home in the bay so it was his bay and he could do whatever he wanted.

So the said admiral started taking photos of him and said she was going to inform the harbour master, it must have been a while ago as it was before registration numbers where required, (I still carry the heat seeking missiles just in case however)

But I’m trying to let it go, really I am !!!

I have been sharpening my pitch fork reading this thread :-)

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Hey bigal. Nice piece of writing. Do you have a blog? I want to see what happened next. You've reminded me of the time my young bro hauled me up to the spreaders, got an override on the winch and couldn't get me down. LOL. No jetskier in sight luckily.

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Many years back a jetski went thru the side of a moored Towson 32 at Little bucks, made a very large hole, as I recall the rider was not badly injured. The actual owner then scarpered with jet ski in tow before the feds arrived.

If you think we have problems in Florida they take them on the freeway !

 

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/09/19/heres-a-florida-man-driving-a-street-legal-jet-ski-on-the-highway

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