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Boat rage


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26 minutes ago, KM... said:

Yeah I saw that and thought the same, you sad pathetic bunch of panty stains.

Not really thinking that language is going to add to the thread much, but suit yourself.

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39 minutes ago, Tamure said:

The guy made a mistake, I guess he just had a gutsful of people making wakes and lost it...... but locked up at a cost of 90k a year to keep the system happy? Dont think so.

Are you referring to him making a mistake when he bet the security guard to death and crushed his skull? or that he made a mistake again and got violent with a lady and some kids out boating? Its not clear from your post...

And here is me thinking I'm on the lefty poof tree hugging vegetarian end of the spetrum when it comes to law and order.

I guess, based on the justifiable homicide thread, you guys all think its OK to go and kill someone every time a wave hits your boat. 

I don't know, perhaps if you don't like waves hitting your boat, you shouldn't go out on the water?

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32 minutes ago, Fish said:

And here is me thinking I'm on the lefty poof tree hugging vegetarian end of the spetrum when it comes to law and order.

Your own post betrays you.

 

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16 minutes ago, KM... said:

Your own post betrays you.

 

It may appear that way, possibly. I don't think our criminal justice system is very good, and prison tends to train / breed criminals. I think substantially more should be spent on prisoners. Mental health, counselling, basic life skills like being able to read, drivers licenses for all (for free), vocational training, and that prisoners should be treated like humans. The punishment of prison is the deprivation of liberty, it shouldn't be living in a scotty sh*t hole. Reoffending rates are way too high and more should be done about that, for the wider good of society.

But at the same time prison also serves a purpose. Putting aside the punishment element, prison removes people that are a danger to our community, from that community.

In this particular case, I need to have faith that suitable measures have been put in place to prevent this guy loosing it, and killing someone again. The parole board has looked at it, and deemed he did not need to be recalled. I am assuming the parole board has much better info than the Herald article.

I was not surprised to hear this guy has history. My first pick was that he was coming off a P bender and wasn't in full control of his faculties. Turns out he just has low faculties and a documented history of anger issues. I would feel better if this guy had access to effective counselling and any treatment he needs. If he has an issue with boat wake, maybe he should get a house.  I think you guys should all pay for that, if you like?

But the underlying message is this guy seriously over reacted. Things happen in life that are annoying, sometimes even dangerous. What is important is how we all respond to those things. Linking back to the Justifiable Homicide thread, assaulting someone, ramming boats at high speed, threatening to kill, or killing someone is not an appropriate response.

Whilst you guys would like to go and physically throttle someone on occasion, I'm under the impression that you haven't actually done that yet. You've been adult enough to stop yourself...

The danger comes about when you have someone with a known history of an inability to stop themselves from violently attacking people. That danger to the community needs to be adequately managed. Somehow.

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

Are you referring to him making a mistake when he bet the security guard to death and crushed his skull? or that he made a mistake again and got violent with a lady and some kids out boating? Its not clear from your post...

 

Or the mistake we collectively made (and to which you refer or allude) in not providing suitable treatment and rehabilitation to prisoners.

Without condoning this guy's historical or recent behaviour, we have to assume its the result of a less-than-ideal mental condition.  Our prisons do a very poor job of fixing this - they belong to the Department of Corrections after all, not the Department of Health (who, going futher down the rabbit hole,  seem to prioritise mental health in that waaaaaay down the back of the bus kind of way).

Consequently, the mad are treated as bad and that tends to worsen behaviour.

Did he over-react?  Absolutely.  Was he provoked?  Possibly.  Could we have done something differently to over time to (a) address his anger problems and (b) get boat owners to act within the law so the easily provoked have no reason to break out?  Definitely.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tamure said:

tabloid posting at its finest

That is a very ZB response.

But you didn't say which mistake he made that you were referring to? C'mon, I'm sure your capability of a more considered answer

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you realise of course

that there are many mental + personality conditions shared by those in prison that don't improve no matter how much money is thrown at them

so when people say "they didn't get the help they needed"......it's often not because it wasn't offered but because it either doesn't exist or the offer of help was refused

ie what's the treatment for foetal alcohol disorder?

There is no particular treatment for foetal alcohol syndrome, and the damage to the child's brain and organs cannot be reversed.

If we take the whole range of mental illness, from common disorders such as anxiety and depression, to severe disorders such as schizophrenia, and the hinterland of other conditions, such as personality disorder and intellectual disability, then approximately 50% of all patients with mental illness either have no satisfactory treatments available or often fail to respond to existing ones that may help others.  

Psychotherapy, also called talk therapy, is sometimes used to treat antisocial personality disorder. Therapy may include, for example, anger and violence management, treatment for alcohol or substance misuse, and treatment for other mental health conditions.

But psychotherapy is not always effective, especially if symptoms are severe and the person can't admit that he or she contributes to serious problems.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20353934

Because people with antisocial personality tend to blame others, have a low tolerance for frustration, are impulsive and rarely form trusting relationships, working with these individuals is difficult. People with ASP often lack the motivation to improve and are notoriously poor self-observers. They simply do not see themselves as others do.

and we haven't even started on the psychopaths...

so by all means offer treatment, just don't expect the need for prisons to go away  

 

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57 minutes ago, erice said:

you realise of course

that there are many mental + personality conditions shared by those in prison that don't improve no matter how much money is thrown at them

so when people say "they didn't get the help they needed"......it's often not because it wasn't offered but because it either doesn't exist or the offer of help was refused

ie what's the treatment for foetal alcohol disorder?

There is no particular treatment for foetal alcohol syndrome, and the damage to the child's brain and organs cannot be reversed.

If we take the whole range of mental illness, from common disorders such as anxiety and depression, to severe disorders such as schizophrenia, and the hinterland of other conditions, such as personality disorder and intellectual disability, then approximately 50% of all patients with mental illness either have no satisfactory treatments available or often fail to respond to existing ones that may help others.  

Psychotherapy, also called talk therapy, is sometimes used to treat antisocial personality disorder. Therapy may include, for example, anger and violence management, treatment for alcohol or substance misuse, and treatment for other mental health conditions.

But psychotherapy is not always effective, especially if symptoms are severe and the person can't admit that he or she contributes to serious problems.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20353934

Because people with antisocial personality tend to blame others, have a low tolerance for frustration, are impulsive and rarely form trusting relationships, working with these individuals is difficult. People with ASP often lack the motivation to improve and are notoriously poor self-observers. They simply do not see themselves as others do.

and we haven't even started on the psychopaths...

so by all means offer treatment, just don't expect the need for prisons to go away  

 

You realise of course that most of the people with the issues you describe don't end up in prison anyway they just keep on living next door.

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Anchored in Issy Bay Monday and suddenly rocked so that anything upright inside fell over. Then a bit later the same fizzboat came as close as 10 metres to my anchored boat doing the same again with the same consequences  but I managed a quick couple of photos. Also indicated 5 knots to no avail. This happens all the time I know.

Boat was called EXESS a Buccaneer with large Yamaha outboard. Complete TOSSER!!!!

 

20210201_151632.jpg

20210201_151645.jpg

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A lack of policing will lead to vigilante justice. When law abiding people don’t have faith that the laws will be policed and enforced, they eventually take matters into their own hands. 
They result is rarely good. And at the end the police make a daft statement saying something like “let the proper authorities deal with it”... but they never friggin do!!!

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Just looks like it is the guy that flipped out and ran around dangerously in his boat, threatening people and damaging property. Otherwise or wouldn't have said 58 yr old male...

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Thats piss poor really. Either they should both be penalised or neither of them.

 I could understand if the lady had to stop the guy boarding her boat and chose an oar to defend herself, but that she jumped off her boat and went after him, swinging and missing (? Maybe she did get him i dont know)  is no less premeditated.

The sad fact is that both of them,  by their uncontrolled rage, have risked much.

My belief is the cops should give them both a bloody good telling off & make them do community service of some nature, together, and be done with it.

 

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There was one aggressor there. One guy got off his boat, got in his dinghy and chased someone else down, operated his boat dangerously, rammed another boat. The lady didn't pick the oar up until after that, after she told him she had kids on her boat. I'm gobsmacked you guys have an issue with that?

 

From RNZ, he has been charged with assault and operating a boat dangerously... There is clear evidence he did both. So why do you think the lady should be charged with something? for being assaulted?

A 58-year-old man has been arrested in connection with a case of boat rage in the Coromandel Peninsula last month.

He has been charged with assault and operating a vessel dangerously.

The charges relate to an incident, caught on video, where a boat was rammed at Tairua Wharf by an inflatable.

The accused is due to appear in the Hamilton District Court on Wednesday.

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Fish I get your point and I would not dispute the guy acted in a dangerous manner, but her response is no less reprehensible. I am sure that his actions constitute 'assault' but honestly cannot believe her response did not.

Given the choice, which of the two weapons on display would you have rather been on the end of? 

They both did something wrong and from that perspective alone surely applying the law evenly would be all I think is to be expected. 

Just to be clear - only imho. None of the participants are known to me.

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I'm actually interested in what the law says, if someone chases you down and assaults you, are you allowed to whack the f*&%ker back, or just stand there and be assaulted?

Given the provocation by the guy that has been arrested, I'm not seeing any cause for concern by the lady with the oar. I'm sure that faced with the same provocation, many here would have physically assaulted the guy in response... (or at least on the oar to connect first time)

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2 hours ago, Romany said:

Thats piss poor really. Either they should both be penalised or neither of them.

 I could understand if the lady had to stop the guy boarding her boat and chose an oar to defend herself, but that she jumped off her boat and went after him, swinging and missing (? Maybe she did get him i dont know)  is no less premeditated.

The sad fact is that both of them,  by their uncontrolled rage, have risked much.

My belief is the cops should give them both a bloody good telling off & make them do community service of some nature, together, and be done with it.

 

Heat of Madness and to be fair WHO hasnt done the nut at someone for same incident.Then dust settles generally followed by a discussion of apology

Join Hands and sing Kumbaya

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