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Another ridiculous lifejacket article


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I think policing water safety should be taken off the hands of regional and city councils and placed under a central body, not necessarily Maritime NZ either. The councils have shown to be irresponsible in the way policing is carried out and the exercise now is nothing more than money grabbing. As well as a degree of common sense and practicality there needs to be one standard set of rules throughout the whole country. Personally I saw nothing wrong with the original interpretation from Auckland where vessels had to carry them but it was up to the skipper's discretion when they would or should be worn, but of course now even that has been carried a step too far. Friends had their Lotus parked up for the day in Tekouma Harbour. To comply with the new regulations (WRC) they wore their life jackets and left them in the dinghy while ashore. on returning about one hour later the dinghy and oars were still on the beach but the life jackets were gone.The boat then had to return back to Auckland minus four life jackets.

I think the thing that most people have enjoyed with boating up until now has been the fact that people are had freedom to get away from all this kind of nonsense that has been created in the cities and up until now had been trusted with their own personal safety. I do believe that if this trend continues it is the thin end of the wedge, next step will be licensing or registration, not necessarily in that order.

My belief is that idiots are always going to drown just get over it and get on with life.

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That's a fair point KnotMe. But if you tabulate the probabilities on both sides of the ledger they'd be overwhelming. Wear an appropriate PFD for the activity you're engaged in. Make safety a habit, not an optional extra. Enjoy the zen of what you're doing. https://kmccready.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/storm-fantasy-sailing-yacht-safety-card/

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Did I read correctly it is only a 5 day trial and Auckland council is not part of it?How does one find out about local bylaws such as in coro wearing lifejackets while in a tender without going to a main ramp to read such bylaws?         Blanket rules across entire nation then all will know rules.No exceptions   When will the breath testing come in like Aussie???

 

 

Life jackets may save lives and crossing the road may get it by a bus! common sense applies.

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That's a fair point KnotMe. But if you tabulate the probabilities on both sides of the ledger they'd be overwhelming. Wear an appropriate PFD for the activity you're engaged in. Make safety a habit, not an optional extra. Enjoy the zen of what you're doing. https://kmccready.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/storm-fantasy-sailing-yacht-safety-card/

Facts Kevin.. Where are the facts and data? I know from your previous posts that you have no idea of the stats so you are really just presenting your "feelings" on the matter.. The general "vibe" you get on the issue.

 

Anyone can have "feelings" on the matter. Why are yours more important than anyone else?

 

I would genuinely like to see someone spend some time analysing incidents from say the last 3 years case by case and provide some real data.

 

If an inexperienced boaty who bought his first boat yesterday, comes home in the dark because he didn't allow enough daylight, doing 30knots using his GPS as the sole navigation tool and ploughs into rocks, gets thrown into the water and drowns.. Did he die from not wearing a life jacket or from stupidity? I'm sure the stats at present would blame the lack of lifejacket as the main issue because it suits their agenda.

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Facts Kevin.. Where are the facts and data? I know from your previous posts that you have no idea of the stats so you are really just presenting your "feelings" on the matter.. The general "vibe" you get on the issue.

 

Anyone can have "feelings" on the matter. Why are yours more important than anyone else?

 

I would genuinely like to see someone spend some time analysing incidents from say the last 3 years case by case and provide some real data.

 

If an inexperienced boaty who bought his first boat yesterday, comes home in the dark because he didn't allow enough daylight, doing 30knots using his GPS as the sole navigation tool and ploughs into rocks, gets thrown into the water and drowns.. Did he die from not wearing a life jacket or from stupidity? I'm sure the stats at present would blame the lack of lifejacket as the main issue because it suits their agenda.

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/magazines/lookout/issue-36/issue-36.p

 

go to page 9

 

Reliance on a chart plotter leads to night crash Spotlights and better local detail on the chart plotter of his new boat may have prevented a recreational boatie from crashing into a cliff face at the edge of a central North Island lake, while returning from night fishing with his girlfriend. The couple were trying to navigate in the dark by chart plotter, which was loaded only with “Base Maps”, when the skipper had some difficulty working out how to operate the unit. He had bought the 6.5m fishing boat a week earlier and had been running it in during day trips on the lake. The chart plotter came with the vessel. When the man, 31, noticed it was taking a long time to get to the bay of the camp site they were staying in, the pair used head lamps to illuminate the shore, and realised they were in the wrong bay. Frustrated by the delay after a long day on the lake, the skipper turned the boat around and noted the map of the lake on screen didn’t turn with the vessel. The chart plotter was in “heads-up display”, but because the base map didn’t turn he thought there was an issue with the unit. The man switched the chart plotter off and on again, and it appeared to work fine. He then decided to line the boat up on a previous plotted track, thinking it would be sensible to follow that back to a fishing spot they had come from near their camp. They headed off at around 35 km/h on a previous track. At this stage the skipper was still trying to show his partner how the plotter worked. His preference was to have the plotter zoomed out, but she said it should be zoomed in. The skipper was concentrating on his chart plotter when he heard his girlfriend suddenly scream a warning. Leaning forward to get a better sight of the danger, his body hit the 
steering wheel when the vessel smashed into the cliff face just off the starboard bow. The force propelled his partner forward into the forward bulkhead, fracturing her kneecap. Her boyfriend’s head and right side of his face struck the window and pillar on the starboard side of the hard top, causing extensive lacerations and knocking him unconscious. He lost the sight in his right eye as a result of the accident. There was no distress beacon aboard on which to raise the alarm and cell phone coverage is patchy at best on the lake. The couple were eventually able to call for help using the vessel’s VHF radio. Police were alerted, who arranged Coastguard and Ambulance crews to attend the scene. While alcohol was on board, there was no evidence of the skipper being inebriated. The skipper was a relatively experienced boatie who had operated his father’s vessel of a similar size, and had shed that lake many times before. However he had not completed any Coastguard or other formal skipper’s courses.
 
LOOKOUT!POINTS This skipper needed to have his full attention on the course he was taking and the surroundings. Other people on board should be positioned to keep lookout and raise the alarm earlier if need be. It is important also to have tested and understood the capability and limitations of equipment, such as chart plotters, before using them at night. Reliance on a chart plotter alone when motoring at night is not recommended. The standard, basic level maps on GPS chart plotters may not be sufciently rened to navigate by at night. Boaties need to have accurate, up-to-date charts for the environment they are in. This skipper says he realises now that his chart plotter with the basic navigation package may have been sufciently adequate for coastal/inshore navigation, but it did not hold the same accurate and detailed information for inland lakes – which he didn’t realise at the time. He says the main lesson he learned is to be extremely cautious when boating at night: Do not rely on electronics, slow down, reduce the any cabin lighting to improve night vision, and use spotlights. While spotlights assist with night travel, they are best used when stopping to check location. Spotlights can limit your vision to the width of the beam if relying on them when motoring. A skipper should not travel at speed while relying on spotlights for lookout. Spotlights can also blind other boaties who may be in the area. Boaties are advised to have multiple forms of communication close at hand, to enable emergency services to be alerted as quickly as possible – including a PLB or EPIRB distress beacon, ares, and charged cellphones in waterproof bags – in addition to the maritime radio that was on board this vessel.
 
 
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That's usually the story......a chapter of errors which ,had it ended with a fatality would have been trumpeted in the media / MNZ as "not wearing a LJ" . Which was irrelevant but simplified the explanation. Also note  hadn't completed a CG or other formal skippers course. My god no !  Can't figure out how we got through without these qualifications ! Thousands of miles coastal and ocean going and not a scrap of paper amongst us to verify our 'safety'. Oh that's right we took responsibility for ourselves ,learned from experience and used our brains. Now forgotten attributes from a forgotten era. Not surprised to learn of Manch's background and explains the situation

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Keith was, for a short period of time, the Chief Executive of the Real Estate Agents Authority – the Crown Agent responsible for regulating real estate agents.

Yeap he's a professional sucker of politicians genitalia. a lap dog, a Yes man, a Humphrey if you like.

As long as he keeps saying 'Yes Sir may I suck your ***** Sir', he will just bounce around Govt Depts being a pain in the arse for society and be pretty much untouchable.

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Sabre, KnotMe, BP et al, Drownbase lists deaths from drowning in NZ since 1980.

72 deaths where lifejackets were available and not worn.

71 where lifejackets may have saved people.

42 lifejacket status unknown

28 wearing lifejacket

529 lifejacket not applicable

 

Wendy Pannett runs the database and has helped me before on my research on people drowning in rips. She's very keen to help people in their research. You can reach her on 021 440 891 or
wendy@prdept.co.nz

 

You're welcome. And next time, Sabre, please don't make assumptions about what or who people on this forum may know or not know.

drownbase-lifejackets-1980-on.png

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So in round figures 2 people per year who "might" have been saved by a lifejacket. Nope, I'm not excited. Compare with 50 plus people per year who win the big prize in Lotto.

We are back to wearing crash helmets in cars, that "might" save more than one or two people a year, why aren't we considering it??

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None of that either justifies a penalty regime on LJ wearing nor guarantees survival in water incidents .As stated ad nauseam a lot of deaths on water are from hypothermia but get recorded as drowning as an all encompassing statistical entry. IMO the opinions / views expressed here are ,with one exception ,balanced knowledgeable and at the head of the game. LJ's not applicable is not defined either so it's bureaucrats who are deciding the stats from the safety and security of their ivory towers

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Sabre, KnotMe, BP et al, Drownbase lists deaths from drowning in NZ since 1980.

72 deaths where lifejackets were available and not worn.

71 where lifejackets may have saved people.

42 lifejacket status unknown

28 wearing lifejacket

529 lifejacket not applicable

 

Wendy Pannett runs the database and has helped me before on my research on people drowning in rips. She's very keen to help people in their research. You

 

You're welcome. And next time, Sabre, please don't make assumptions about what or who people on this forum may know or not know.

Sabre, KnotMe, BP et al, Drownbase lists deaths from drowning in NZ since 1980.

72 deaths where lifejackets were available and not worn.

71 where lifejackets may have saved people.

42 lifejacket status unknown

28 wearing lifejacket

529 lifejacket not applicable

 

Wendy Pannett runs the database and has helped me before on my research on people drowning in rips. She's very keen to help people in their research. You can reach her on 021 440 891 or

wendy@prdept.co.nz

 

You're welcome. And next time, Sabre, please don't make assumptions about what or who people on this forum may know or not know.

No assumptions Kevin. I have asked you in the past what data you were using re crotch straps to which you replied that you didn't have any. I can dig up the post when I have the time.

 

Also the stats you are using here are meaningless without a detailed description of the events surounding the deaths.. As has been discussed by many in this thread.. That you chose to ignore. There maybe a genuine need to review the LJ laws but the issue needs to be looked at HONESTLY and OBJECTIVELY.

 

Also I have no problem with the families of the deceased reading my comments. I am not responsible for the decisions of those who have died.

 

I am happy to take responsibility for my own actions and I certainly wear a life jacket when it is appropriate.

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Those are not the facts we are talking about Kevin. We are (at least I am) talking looking at each of the 71 cases in detail and working out probability that a life jacket would have saved saved someone. What were other contributing factors and what % of the blame should they take? How many were too drunk to help them selves regardless? How many would have died of hypothermia before help arrived? I know of several cases over a few years where a drunk bloke has got out of bed and fallen off the back of a boat in the dark while peeing. How many of them would likely put a life jacket on? Law or not. Remember laws don't physically force people to comply, they just punish people who don't. No one is putting a dollar value on a life. I never once said, 'this law will cost too much to implement' or that it would cost me too much money personally, I must have at least 16 life jackets of various types. This isn't about money.

 

There are many times I do wear a life jacket without question, dinghy sailing, water skiing, keeler sailing coastal or offshore, even while racing my trailer yacht in very sheltered water. I'd like to be able to take a nap on a 40'er without wearing a life jacket, especially when you think not every life jacket is inflatable.

 

I do have an opinion your right, but as I have admitted, I don't understand the thinking of the other side of the argument, maybe that would alter my opinion, and a suggestion of the law that was reasonable might alter many options, just I can't think of any reasonable way the rule would work.

 

But, Kevin, without being distracted by anything else... without seemingly avoiding the topic, if you would.....

 

What do you think the law should be?

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Copied from another thread Kevin.

 

*Sabre, I haven't researched the stats in detail. My knowledge comes from talking to people and from personal experience. I'd be stunned if there is not good research on the issue. Like I say, it's a no-brainer.*

 

Just for the record Kevin, I do support a healthy, honest discussion on topics such as these. I also think it is important to keep an open mind and not to think your opinion is the only one that matters.

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I'm happy with the law. I wear an inflatable life jacket when I row the dinghy out to the boat and back. On some days it's totally necessary, on others it isn't, but I do it because it's a good habit.

 

Safety is habit. I do tasks exactly the same way all the time, even if it takes a bit longer. I enjoy the zen of it - it's part of being on the water. When you’re tired and in trouble, your brain will do the task you’ve trained it for. I've seen people paralyzed with indecision in emergency situations - not a pleasant sight.

 

I watched a couple of young people head out for a romantic tootle in their rib the other evening - beers in hand, no oars, no lifejackets, wind was picking up and darkness was closing. I didn't say a word, but if I'd been a warranted officer I would have been happy to educate them for their own safety and for the good of the community and their families.

 

The safety culture in NZ needs to change. I've seen different safety cultures around the world and I'm afraid the attitude in NZ ranks low on the scale.

 

I find the view that 'oh it might just a couple of deaths a year and you can't prove it so let's not worry too much' abhorrent.

 

If you want more info about the stats get in touch with Wendy.

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