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Another ridiculous lifejacket article

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Then you opinion and mine are not so different Kevin. Would you wear a life jacket while sleeping at night in a calm bay on a 40' yacht in good condition? I'm going to assume the answer will be no. Neither would I. I would not like to see a law that said you must wear a life jacket at all times while on a boat. I worry about how a law would distinguish between a scenario like this, and one where a lifejacket is necessary. The best way I can think of is to have it the skippers responsibility to decide, which is the law now. Do we actually agree that skipper responsibility is the best way to handle this decision? Possibly some skippers require more education to identify risky scenarios? Scenarios that could be identified by proper analysis of drownings?

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I find the view that 'oh it might just a couple of deaths a year and you can't prove it so let's not worry too much' abhorrent.


If you want more info about the stats get in touch with Wendy.

I find your 'i know best' attitude abhorrent. I worry people who make laws think like you and will do their best to ruin our freedom and self responsibility.


Smart people wear lifejackets when they feel conditions warrant it. Idiots will never do it, regardless of the law.

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Just a side note I thought interesting ...


The contact for the lj research has an email @PRdept.


PR? Is that what this is? I thought it was BS.


Any laws should be written in plain English by people who have subject knowledge, not a silly job title.

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Sabre, KnotMe, BP et al, Drownbase lists deaths from drowning in NZ since 1980.

72 deaths where lifejackets were available and not worn.

71 where lifejackets may have saved people.

42 lifejacket status unknown

28 wearing lifejacket

529 lifejacket not applicable

Errr.. those Stats are telling us someone doesn't know how to present Stats that actually say something.


All those stats say is in 3 out of ever 4 drownings Life jackets made no difference to the outcome. There is nothing there saying whether they would or wouldn't have in the remaining cases.



what data you were using re crotch straps

Don't get too wrapped up on the straps as I doubt anyone is collecting that info or have been but not for that long a time frame to be super useful. I can assure you 5 mins in waves with a strap and then without will tell you everything you need to know in detail and with great accuracy. I'd almost go as far as to say, based on zero scientific facts but from experience and some logical deduction, that people have died due to having no crotch strap fitted when if they had a strap they would be alive today. In wave action with a inflatable PDF, as are very common these days, I'm 99.8% sure people will have tired far far faster than they would have in calmer water or while wearing a crotch strap. The sooner you get knackered the sooner it is you can't hold you head up any longer and that leads to no where good. So not wearing a strap means you have to be rescued a lot faster than those wearing one. I am 101% behind Kevin on straps, they should be a mandatory item fitted to all life jackets, no debate end of story.



Safety is habit.

An admiral ideal for sure but just be careful habit doesn't become robotic. Robots do the same identical thing day in day out, they don't stop and take a look around for changes or other things that could be going bad on them i.e. it removes the need for them to have situational awareness, something which is seriously important in boating. We see it at work with gear people bring in along with comments like 'I've never check as it's always been fine but when Uncle Arthur pointed this out I near shat myself'.

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But Kevin i do make safety a habit/priority. But I don't want to carry a LJ in my dinghy when I go ashore (see above).


Here's a fun exercise, read this and see how many times you can count the word boat




Its a slow day so .. and I know this brings nothing to the topic BUT - I found them...


Keith... brings extensive leadership experience in a number of policy and operational




Gambling and Censorship Compliance and Enforcement


You were right it was fun.

Thank you.

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yup. and bored with it.


Its bollocks that a thinking human being should need to be told when to look after themselves. Commercially a different story - unfortunately

regulations are required because in the pursuit of money things get 'forgotten', but if I want to go sailing on my own and not wear a life jacket or

not clip on, or just generally risk it all - as long as no one else is put in jeopardy - then leave me be.


I've always looked at the boom as my mortal enemy. Maybe Keith (nothing personal there bro but you did take the job on) and his mates could make us

all wear helmets too. Oh and gloves so we don't get rope burns or ...


Shoot me now.

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Based on all those  statistics it's high time all these do gooders (busybodys) started a campaign for compulsory crash helmets in cars. It's a guarantee to save more lives in one year than compulsory lifejackets would save in 100 years. Imagine the acceptance of that ! Women's hair do's upset and that would just be the start of the howls of outrage . When you think about it therefore is it the preservation of life these DG'rs are on about or just building their empire ?   ...You're right !

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So anyone know what the details around the actual fines are going to be? All I can work out so far is that Im going to be infringing some sort of law the moment I step on my boat, in the water, without a lifejacket. For the duration of five undisclosed days, of course. Shouldnt the specifics of these sorts of """laws""" be declared somewhere?

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Doesn't seem too harsh to me - speeding is a big problem in the Sounds, and the requirement is only to carry the life jackets. Mind you, I'd be a bit pissed if I got a ticket for not having a lifey in the dinghy while rowing the stern line 10m to the shore.

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Because ,like crash helmets in cars,there would be a huge public uproar.Plus getting ID for the ticket in the surf,river,water would be problematic and difficult. Nope,the more that's written about the LJ Nazis the more it becomes apparent it's another revenue stream for Councils. ! And oh so easy too.

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Probably right mate. 


To be fair to the Waka Ama groups, I have seen the big crews out in pretty nasty weather, and all wearing pfd's. but the  remaining 90+% of the time they feel they don't need them. Skippers (and individuals) responsibility works for them, I guess.


I have never seen the waikato fleet here (well, over the river) out training, but I'll keep an eye out to check for pfd's when I see them.

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'tis true, they are frig'n long! 


Can someone straighten out this bag of snakes?? Are the rules completely different  in different regions, or much of a muchness?


I thought it was mandatory to wear a pfd in any vessel under 6m unless the skipper explicitly states otherwise? Is that now different in each area? I know Auckland has it's own policies, but other areas?

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