Myjane 40 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I am shocked to see some good boats on trademe selling , some just a few hundred dollars have a look , Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Can't say I noticed. But I do see a lot that have been sitting on the market for a very long time without selling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 ssshhhh! It's winter time. I'm trying to sell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Anecdotally boats that are mint and present well, no matter what age still seem to move smartly, our new Hood 38 a case in point. But they are in the minority and there is a lot of tired stock needing thousands spent of them due to decades of deferred maintenance and equipment upgrades. Case in point, older boats tend to have underpowered engines, replacing that can be half the value of the boat, before you even start on Electronics, running and standing rigging, sails, deck equipment, hull jobs etc etc. If you can find the boat that has had money and attention lavished on it , that is the one to buy, even at a healthy premium, the rest sit on Trademe and look " ridiculously cheap." Good luck ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Young Entertainer 61 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 yep it is not the purchase price but the cost of ownership that most people forget. Then you have to figure out what you want. I didn't want a 1020 cause they are 30 years old and need maintenance, but then I didn't want some modern production boat that has no one to play with. So I have a 1020 and I budget 15k a year to do maintenance/marina costs, so far that has been about right, and probably the same money would finance a new boat but that's not what I want. So the list for the coming years includes new No1, New electronics, New engine, new cockpit teak, new wiring/instrument panel, painting forepeak, pressure water, new gas bottle locker. But on the positive side I have new fridge, new rudder, new saloon interior paint, new main, new kite, new no3, new ropes, new dinghy, new bottom, new boarding ladder, new exhaust, new electric toilet, new holding tank etc... And by the time I finish my wish list I should be ready to buy some new sails again and repeat the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Sounds about right Rawhide, the way sails seem to last these days about 6 years for a headsail. Just had our 6 year old No3 start to blow apart de-lamination beginning sails are not what they used to be. Won't be rolling with Doyle again, sail has maybe 5000 miles on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Interesting SM, I have a laminate no 2 as my primary roller fuller headsail. It has about 20,000 nm on it, is 7 years old. It’s been back to norths to have the leech repaired as the paint on sun protection was rubbish, and had to be changed to the conventional sun cover. Other than that it’s fine. It’s a Norths sail, specd by booboo.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 IT rest of my sails are Norths and well over 20,000 on them just done the main and went Norths expensive but nice sail. Quite a number of the Doyle sails up in the tropics same story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 IT rest of my sails are Norths and well over 20,000 on them just done the main and went Norths expensive but nice sail. Quite a number of the Doyle sails up in the tropics same story. I just binned my Dacron Windward sails no3 after 25 years , was toast for racing after 6 but did the job for cruising thereafter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 IMO a sail that is rubbish for racing is rubbish for cruising as well. More heel, less forward thrust, inefficient. Good Sails are a basic requirement for sailing... Anywhere 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 382 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 IMO a sail that is rubbish for racing is rubbish for cruising as well. More heel, less forward thrust, inefficient. Good Sails are a basic requirement for sailing... Anywhere Been having this very same discussion at home. The choices are Dacron sails that will "last for ages" vs laminates that will "last not as long but hold shape longer" I figure that the more out of shape the sail, the more difficult the boat handling resulting in far less pleasant cruising = more arguments, less happiness. Cost differences are not enormous. I think we should redefine what constitutes "lasts" in the "lasts for ages" definition of sails. If it doesn't have the right shape, or close to, then what's the point? The other argument is that even if it's out of shape you can still go sailing so long as it's not ripped to shreds... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vorpal Blade 89 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 The other argument is that even if it's out of shape you can still go sailing so long as it's not ripped to shreds... More correctly ... Even if its out of shape you can still go sailing so long as it's downwind... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Interestingly, for the new main I just got, booboo recommended Norths latest Dacron as being better than the laminate for my purpose - basically performance cruising. Before this particular cloth came out, we were talking laminate, like the headsail. It is fully battened, which helps it retain shape as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philstar 61 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Norths vs doyles I've just scored a set of doyles stratis square top main and jib second hand recently . I've used a range of manufacturers before but I've always liked norths. My current number 1 was brought new from norths and is 3dl, my code zero was also brought new from norths both in 2014. Its interesting comparing the sails, fabric and build quality between the two brands. fabric stratis vs norths 3dl - very similar. Both the norths 3dl no1 and the doyles stratis number 1 feel soft and although not delaminating feel like they have maybe 2 seasons left of careful use. I know the norths number one has been used for 3 seasons quite a bit. I suspect the stratis has had similar use. The fabrics are very very similar and shape and performance seems to be pretty similar. Build quality -this is where the major difference is. I think the detailing and build quality of the Norths products is significantly better than the doyles. Tapered battons vs light non tapered in the doyles. the batton pocklets on the norths are better. The norths leech cords etc are better, the corner rings and detailing all is better on the norths sails and the norths sails just feel better built. Also norths provided a zipped sail bag for the jib and a really good square code zero bag, whereas the doyles just came in simple tube bags. small details but it matters. All in all the sails are similar but the norths details just seem to be better - thus if I had two similar quotes I'd go with norths. From memory when I got the code zero and number 1 quoted by both and doyles were significantly more than norths. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Young Entertainer 61 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 so my wife read my post and reminded me that I didn't add in new carbon pole, dyneema lifelines, new spinnaker heavy and light sheets, plus a bunch of other things that apparently have been "maintained" in the last three years. Sails is an interesting one, Rawhide is completely norths at the moment but the time is coming for a new no1 and I am toying with the idea of Doyles or even 1Sails, Currently the racing sail No1 is 3DL and the benefit is consistency. With the boat in Pine Harbour it has never had a sailmaker on board, but Booboo did have a look at the 3DL at a BOISW when I first got it so replacing with an identical sail has merit, I have seen a shift to Doyles in our fleet as they come out and setup the sail up for you, as well as selling it to you, But the extra racing lifespan of a 3DI is worth dollars The big question is though why do the insist on putting metal zips on sail bags? Best sail bag I own is on the No2 which is about 8 years old and still works cause it is plastic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I also find it interesting that many cruisers go with the cheapest. The bigger lofts have better design software, and IMO produce better sails. Better sails give better power with less heel, for a given area. Why would you not want that! Also international service.. By the way, Norths guys came out and fitted my new main at Gulf Harbour, so I'd expect them to do that at any Auck marina. No charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Norths vs doyles I've just scored a set of doyles stratis square top main and jib second hand recently . I've used a range of manufacturers before but I've always liked norths. Ive seen your new square top main, seriously! Are you sure it's big enough? You could have got a few extra square milli-meters of sail area onto it if you really tried.... Isn't the second to top batten the same length as your boom? (And yes, I did get to see it, we were close at the start, just before you did that horizon job...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,670 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 A gaff rigged Ross? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frickie 9 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 square rigged is the next step.... great down wind modeing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Myjane 40 Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 Well in Wellington for the weekend and walked three marinas , I have seen many boats on trademe here , some are just junk , rough , needing lots of work and high prices advertised, one I wanted to see I did , and the photos on trademe were better than the boat , some boat owners just don't do maintainance or can't and expect to get top dollar an eye opener Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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