Stranded boaties in 'dire' situation appeal for New Zealand's help

[aardvarkash10 1,057]

1 hour ago, Bad Kitty said:

Yep all of that Fish, but the quarantine, and the quality of it, is crucial. We're only one a#*ehole away from being like Melbourne, and after going thru the pain I'd hate to go back to a lockdown.

It would be terminal for much of NZ's small business, and a fair chunk of medium to big business I suspect.

Any quarantine jumpers, including the special sort of dumb that broke into one of Rotorua's quarantine hotels, should spend a month in jail.

Just to drive home to some of our IQ challenged just how big a deal this is.

You give the impression that the people attempting to subvert quarantine are making rational risk/reward assessments when they do so.

This is, like any argument for penalties after the fact, irrational itself.  The mycoplasma bovis event identified that, despite a legal requirement to maintain records of stock movements, up to 70% of farmers knowmingly ignored this requirement, in a large number of cases because disclosing would mean that a "cash sale" would have had to be declared...  So despite both biosecurity and Inland revenue legislation, over 2/3 of farmers chose to break the law and expose their industry and the country to what turned out to be about $1b of damage.

As you say, the quarantine is crucial.  It needs to be kept clear of a profit motivation and firmly in the hands of enforcement agencies.  The current consequence of community transmission is too great.

[Bad Kitty 283]

17 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

You give the impression that the people attempting to subvert quarantine are making rational risk/reward assessments when they do so.

This is, like any argument for penalties after the fact, irrational itself.  The mycoplasma bovis event identified that, despite a legal requirement to maintain records of stock movements, up to 70% of farmers knowmingly ignored this requirement, in a large number of cases because disclosing would mean that a "cash sale" would have had to be declared...  So despite both biosecurity and Inland revenue legislation, over 2/3 of farmers chose to break the law and expose their industry and the country to what turned out to be about $1b of damage.

As you say, the quarantine is crucial.  It needs to be kept clear of a profit motivation and firmly in the hands of enforcement agencies.  The current consequence of community transmission is too great.

No I think the people that do this are too stupid to make good decisions. But throw them in the slammer for a month, at least it sends a message, and may discourage the occasional slightly smarter muppet from the wrong decision. If a few farmers had been penalised appropriately it may have encouraged better compliance.

And before anyone starts with the whole bleeding heart garbage just save it. Jail may not cure criminals, but it certainly stops criminals visiting harm on decent citizens while the ar#*holes are locked up. And until our Government, whatever flavor, starts prioritizing education, healthcare, education, breaking the cycle of uneducated trailer trash & domestic violence, education etc. etc. jails should stay populated. 

[El Toro 105]

Happy Friday BK!

[aardvarkash10 1,057]

17 minutes ago, Bad Kitty said:

No I think the people that do this are too stupid to make good decisions. But throw them in the slammer for a month, at least it sends a message, and may discourage the occasional slightly smarter muppet from the wrong decision. If a few farmers had been penalised appropriately it may have encouraged better compliance.

And before anyone starts with the whole bleeding heart garbage just save it. Jail may not cure criminals, but it certainly stops criminals visiting harm on decent citizens while the ar#*holes are locked up. And until our Government, whatever flavor, starts prioritizing education, healthcare, education, breaking the cycle of uneducated trailer trash & domestic violence, education etc. etc. jails should stay populated. 

^this is the most interesting mix of fascist socialism I have seen here.

Thats not necessarily a criticism btw.

[Fogg 427]

Please move this thread to the gutters of Smalltalk where it now belongs.

[Black Panther 1,686]

Here is exactly what I didn't want to happen

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/video-emerges-nz-yacht-involved-in-tense-dispute-tongas-navy-reef-used-safe-haven

[Steve Pope 253]

1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

Here is exactly what I didn't want to happen

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/video-emerges-nz-yacht-involved-in-tense-dispute-tongas-navy-reef-used-safe-haven

Isn't he heading for NZ? sounded very kiwi to me, I struggle to see what the Tongan Navy are hoping to achieve, policing an uninhabited reef at this time, that is and has been a safe haven (way point) for yachts people.

[Frank 157]

Sailing Zatara's recent video interview with Fiji Immigration and Customs explains their Blue Lane Process very well and it looks like they have covered all aspects.

Perhaps this could be a template for NZ at some point in the future, however In terms of Covid and the economy the Gummints focus beyond returning kiwis seems to be working out how to allow entry for skilled labour.

[harrytom 675]

The question is"do let overseas cruisers in"   Cruisers probably wont have c19 onboard due to being at sea . Yes to letting in NZ registered or NZ citizen owned vessels in(where vessel brought overseas but nz citizens onboard) No to other cruisers wanting a safe haven.They have a country of origin so can return to their country of origin. 

As "fish" stated earlier may seem hard but can we afford to go down the same road as Australia etc We have all done our bit to beat/keep at bay c19 why jeopardise it.

I am against AC crews/film crews arriving as well. We have  good film studios set ups in NZ along with some rising actors. The AC on the other is an expenditure for Ak not a income.Do not believe what the cup would/can generate would cover costs.

[Romany 162]

BP I understand the concerns you have but it seems in this instance we are not looking at cruiser behaving like an arse  

I think the master of sailing vessel seems to be well entitled to preserve his ship and crew, and simply stated directly (perhaps a little less than diplomatically) his intentions.  For goodness sake  - it is an uninhabited reef miles from anywhere, and the naval ship masters attempted use of Covid-19 as a tool to take control of what is undeniably disputed territory was laughable.

The navy tried to bully the yachtie and got what they deserved. I'd suggest that the the fact there was no boarding simply meant Tongan Navy were engaging in posturing - a game of huff and puff, or at most - conducting a training exercise.  

Do you think the yacht skipper was wrong, or behaving poorly?

[Black Panther 1,686]

Honestly we don't have enough information to answer that. But every time someone on a sailboat boat is less than pleasant to a representative of a government the door squeezes a little more closed for those who follow

I am quite serious in saying the days of offshore cruising are numbered.  If you want to sample it leave asap.

On the slim evidence of that vodeo though he comes across badly.

[darkside 63]

To me the yacht skippers response was arrogant towards the Tongans, something I hate to see from cruising sailors (especially with our flag). The conditions on the video didn't look like they precluded putting to sea in any vessel that should be sailing towards New Zealand. I guarantee if it was the US Coastguard suggesting he moved on he would have been gone pronto.

[Romany 162]

You've got to admit Darkside & BP, that despatching a boarding party of 6 big blokes, quite probably armed is no way to encourage polite discourse.

I think its quite accurately described as "gunboat diplomacy",  was firmly resisted and I dont think there is more to it than that.

BP - regrettably i think u are right about cruising.

 

[darkside 63]

I've been boarded by navy twice (Eritrea and south coast of France). They don't tend to pop over on their own and as a rule navy personnel are armed. My guess is that they decided this guy was a harmless muppet and left him alone. I've only stopped at Minerva once. We had a somewhat friendlier chat with the Tongan navy vessel over the VHF, but we were on route NZ to Tonga, not coming from Fiji.

I can only hope the Tongans weren't too offended and will still go out of their way to help yachties as and when requested. As an aside pretty sure the navy vessel would be around 50 years old as well so they probably thought that comment was a bit of a laugh.

[Plato 11]

Here is a very sad account of Covid on board.

 

[Adrianp 124]

On 10/08/2020 at 3:01 PM, Plato said:

Here is a very sad account of Covid on board.

 

Man, that drives home why we need to keep on top of the bloody virus with our Lockdowns. Just heart breaking.