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Rich guy puts weight behind anti-Waiheke Marina movement


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1 hour ago, harrytom said:

There will be dredging of some sort

Why? Is that a fact or some sort of personal opinion?

How much silt is stirred up when driving piles? Not a lot I would have thought.

This is a very different proposition, and substantially smaller impact on the environment than building a sea wall. Sandspit needed dredging. This is possibly one of the lowest impact marinas you could get...

I think it is a dangerous situation when poorly informed people start advocating either way for infrastructure projects. Its a marina so it must be bad does not equate to reality.

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52 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Just a matter of population pressure.  Florida is very close to a ban on anchoring. 

And that is somthing that concerns me.Give cruising another 10/15 yrs and will be told where and where you cant anchor.Which bay you can use which bay you cant. Hope I am wrong but with the boating explosion its only a matter of time before you will need a boat WOF and some form of licence to operate a vessel.

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18 minutes ago, Fish said:

Why? Is that a fact or some sort of personal opinion?

How much silt is stirred up when driving piles? Not a lot I would have thought.

This is a very different proposition, and substantially smaller impact on the environment than building a sea wall. Sandspit needed dredging. This is possibly one of the lowest impact marinas you could get...

I think it is a dangerous situation when poorly informed people start advocating either way for infrastructure projects. Its a marina so it must be bad does not equate to reality.

So you have no issue with a marina in our playground,No problem. We can al have opinions too.

 

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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

Just a matter of population pressure.  Florida is very close to a ban on anchoring. 

Is it just me, but in modern society I have the perception that everything good and free eventually will either (if it hasn't already) be banned or a fee be required. Sailboat cruising has not and will not be spared....I expect licenses required to use your boat (sail or stinkpot) within 10 years, irrespective whom is in power

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29 minutes ago, harrytom said:

So you have no issue with a marina in our playground,No problem. We can al have opinions too.

 

No problem with opinions, that is what a forum is for. My question was with regard to differentiation opinion from opinion posed as fact (i.e. the need to dredge).

But on the playground bit, isn't that a bit of hyperbole? Kennedy Point already is a ferry terminal... 

Swing moorings can bugger up a bunch of good playgrounds. A marina is a far more efficient use of space for parking boats than swing moorings. I'm not trying to be difficult, I believe new infrastructure, done well, can reduce impacts on the environment. This marina is an example of that.

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Sorry to disappoint you but they will be dredging. It's a shallow bay and the Waiheke set don't do little people boats so they need depth.

2 minutes ago, Fish said:

Swing moorings can bugger up a bunch of good playgrounds.

So you submitted against the new ones the rich lister on the point is trying to put in at Rakino so he can increase the price of his subdivison?

While you should have, weight of numbers do count occasionally, we have submitted and will be attending the hearings on your behalf.

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2 minutes ago, Fish said:

No problem with opinions, that is what a forum is for. My question was with regard to differentiation opinion from opinion posed as fact (i.e. the need to dredge).

But on the playground bit, isn't that a bit of hyperbole? Kennedy Point already is a ferry terminal... 

Swing moorings can bugger up a bunch of good playgrounds. A marina is a far more efficient use of space for parking boats than swing moorings. I'm not trying to be difficult, I believe new infrastructure, done well, can reduce impacts on the environment. This marina is an example of that.

Do you know what is going to happen to the sewage that will pumped from holding tanks??

The answer is there will be non leak tanks buried on the bottom.No idea what happens when tanks full. Do not think that is very enviromentally friendly. 

Is the marina going to put in its own fresh water supply system?? As they closed the public toilets over summer due to in sufficient water.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124664510/court-to-campout-fouryear-fight-to-stop-waiheke-marina-culminates-in-occupation

One of the sticking points for whānau whānui of Waiheke’s Piritahi Marae, which opposes the development, is the marina’s proposal to bury sewage tanks in the seabed.

It’s “inconceivable”, argues Jacqueline Carter (Ngāti Awa, Waitaha, Ngāi Tai, Ngāti Maru, Ngāpuhi, Ngāi Te Rangi, Ngāti Pākehā). “Not just in the fact that we might want to come here and get a kai, but because of the tapu that we are talking about.”

The developers claim the tanks have “zero chance of leakage”

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That is weird burying sewage tanks...and just leaving them there.  
I suppose a  poo sewage expert will be along shortly advise this is normal practice for Marinas....

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Every poo asset in the country is buried underground. Any poo assets near the coast are usually buried below sea level, and very often in the seabed. Something to do with gravity, apparently. Its been making poo go downhill for 2,000 years or so, now.

I can understand wastewater can be an emotive issue, but I'm surprised this is a reason to block the marina. Adds another string to my current arguement. The status quo is to just pump out into the environment. Is it not better to collect that and treat it?

I was under the impression the local iwi were supportive of the RC. So I'm not sure what has changed, or if it is a different hapu kicking up now. Kind of sounds like Stonefields again, accept this existing site isn't a sacred stolen market garden.

Given this has already been up and down the courts to Appeals, Supreme and back again, I think people are having a hard time accepting they may be wrong. The current issues cited (water and wastewater) could equally be used to stop any development or house building on Waiheke. That would be an interesting proposition...

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11 hours ago, KM... said:

Sorry to disappoint you but they will be dredging. It's a shallow bay and the Waiheke set don't do little people boats so they need depth.

So you submitted against the new ones the rich lister on the point is trying to put in at Rakino so he can increase the price of his subdivison?

While you should have, weight of numbers do count occasionally, we have submitted and will be attending the hearings on your behalf.

Define "we".

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15 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Just a matter of population pressure.  Florida is very close to a ban on anchoring. 

Lot's of these issues should start with a debate on population numbers for NZ. But they won't.

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20 minutes ago, Tamure said:

I know that any marine work is expensive times 1000 but when a see a concrete pontoon worth not much and 4 poles in the ground, I wonder what I am really paying for.

Its what you don't see that is the expensive part. The raft of consultants, lawyers etc to get the approvals, more consultants, project managers for the design, purchase and build, then the biggie - dredging, which if memory serves me correctly is around $60-90/m3 depending upon disposal method. There will be some form of breakwater, could be floating, piles or rock fill. Each of your berth piles is around $2,500 placed, cannot remember pontoon cost but probably around $5000/3m unit installed. Then all the sundry services, power, water, security etc. Power is a big one these days with all the Rivitimos leaving their battery chargers and refrigeration running 24/7.

same sort of question as why does it cost ~$250k to build a 65m2 cottage

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50 minutes ago, Tamure said:

I get all that, especially for a new private development that needs ROI, but still for a place like Westhaven its printing money.

Correct, it's been paid for about 4 times now.

1 hour ago, SloopJohnB said:

Just more than "me"😉

Again correct, I'm only one of a team, a very diverse team. With this specific Rakino scrap, there are a few on, it was a couple of concerned clubs, PCC and GHYC, who went in and have since joined with and are running with it under the AYBA banner.

Submissions lodged, hearings shortly.

Obviously there are other objectors as well.

If you get pissed off at least make a submission against things. It is not hard, can only take 10min and doesn't have to be complex or use big wanky words, being 'authentic', whatever that means, is the new black 😕. You don't have to go to hearings if you don't want, general there will be a lead mob or 3 who will and their positions are reinforced by other submissions, the more there are the more support they can throw at the commissioners, commissioners who do take things like that into consideration.

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21 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Dont know who you are quoting but it's still nonsense.

Collins English Dictionary

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12 hours ago, marinheiro said:

same sort of question as why does it cost ~$250k to build a 65m2 cottage

Mostly greed.

 

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12 hours ago, Tamure said:

I know that any marine work is expensive times 1000 but when a see a concrete pontoon worth not much and 4 poles in the ground, I wonder what I am really paying for.

Agreed. Marina in France, 2,300 euro per year for 11m berth. Marina has ALL the facilities, and they replaced my finger over the winter, AND this marina has to be dredged regularly. There are two marina's in the city. So it's not like there's a massive choice.

Compare to Westhaven: 883.50 * 12 (12m berth) $10,602 NZD a year = €6,278 per year.

OK so a 12m berth in my marina is: €2522,90 per year... Westhaven is nowhere near as nice. 

Given France's strong workers rights, excellent employment laws, strict environmental rules, reasonably high taxes, excellent infrastructure and high (globally) living standard you can't argue it's not comparable to NZ. France median income was about 12% less (2010 can't find newer comparative data) but that's not really going to explain the price difference.

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Knot Me, the new moorings at Rakino are news to me... where can we submit? Im assuming you are talking about Woody Bay where there already is one of the buggers already

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On 6/04/2021 at 7:40 PM, Zozza said:

That is weird burying sewage tanks...and just leaving them there.  
I suppose a  poo sewage expert will be along shortly advise this is normal practice for Marinas....

The tanks are just holding tanks. The wastewater will then be transferred and trucked to the Greenacres site on Waiheke, which deals with the desludging waste from septic tanks on the island. 

I'm not sure about water but they will likely tanker it in, which is fairly common for the commercial operations on the island. 

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