Okahu Hard Stand meeting

[ex Elly 197]

Easy survey to do - only takes 5 minutes.

Be sure to answer 'Strongly Support' to the question on page 2: 
Do you support retention of a short stay haul out and hardstand facility for boat cleaning and/or anti-foul application? 

https://akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/thelanding2023

 

[Timberwolfy 62]

Well, I've been asked to comment and if you know me, you know I love to comment...

Yes, please fill the survey out, folks! select that "strongly support" option when it asks about the hardstand, tell them it's insane to propose a $10mil park when they have no money to do so! The boatyard is so, so critical to local boats, particularly (and, I admit, very selfishly) multihulls.

It's an absolute farce that a certain chair of a certain Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust seems to have the Orakei Local Board wrapped around their finger, and it's utterly tragic but most RAYC members and even many on the club's committee seem to have no idea that there is collusion happening. It's so obviously suspicious that representatives from that certain chairperson's Marine Park business in Tamaki presented to the OLB about how bad The Landing was and how much yard space the Marine Park has... I dunno, just didn't seem super relevant for them to attend that board meeting unless they'd been asked to by someone above them, but maybe that's just me (sidenote, should we talk about that awesome bridge that blocks yachts from using the Marine Park unless they hire a crane to drop their rigs? Brilliant. Instant doubling of your haulout costs; you love to see it...) 

Anyway... Just pretty upsetting in general that the Trust's website says "our goal is to provide a safe, accessible environment in which our people can explore some of NZ’s most valuable taonga (treasure) — our moana (sea) and our whenua (land). We actively promote non-profit water safety education and recreation opportunities, and build stronger community connections via our inclusive marine-based multi-sport facility." Even worse is today's newsletter piece from them, which blathers on and on (similarly to how I'm doing here) about closing The Landing for a range of terribly self-aggrandising reasons (but really just so they can have their (car)park).

Okay, rant over, please submit your feedback supporting the hardstand, and uhhh I guess I'll log in again in 4 more years?

https://akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/thelanding2023

[Okahu Sailor 16]

In an era of declining participation and increasing compliance costs many sports clubs around the country face an uncertain future. Yacht clubs are no exception. So should they keep doing what they’ve always done with some tweaks around the edges and slip further into decline? Or make some fundamental changes to ensure a sustainable future?

Royal Akarana Yacht Club has chosen the latter. Giving up their exclusive use of their site in Okahu Bay and opening up to a variety of marine user groups along with some very generous donations the Marine Sports Centre has taken shape. Visit the site on a sunny weekend and you will immediately see its popularity. Hundreds of people using the site for many different activities, mostly but not exclusively marine related. Dinghy sailing and paddle sports being the most popular. But they have a long way to go to ensure long term survival. They have plans for national and international events which will drive participation and encourage growth in dinghy sailing (which will in turn filter sailors through to keelboats), growing their very successful learn to sail programs as well as continuing their former core activities such as offshore keelboat racing. And now that will be along side other marine sports such as Waka Ama, rather then competing against them for resources. This is in part funded by the restaurant and event centre on site, a very necessary part of ensuring a sustainable operation. 

So then there is The Landing hardstand. An anomaly in Auckland it was neither club owned or fully commercial. Run by a private contractor but funded by Auckland Council for the exclusive use of a fortunate few, in a location that is no longer and probably never was particularly well suited to its use. When the consultation was opened on the hardstand’s future the Marine Sports Centre and RAYC recognised the sites huge potential as a hub for marine events, as well as turning The Landing into a space that people want to visit to further encourage growth. And yes additional storage for club boats in an age where people don’t have the means to own their own boats, or space to store them at home. (As a side note there about 60 club boats in the Marine Sports Centre and ASC boat sheds, another 30 club dinghies within the Centre footprint, 60 surfskis in two 40’ containers in the carpark, several Waka on the grass in front, 20 or so more Waka elsewhere on the site and another 40 odd members boats either on the ramp or in the back carpark. At least 200 boats in total which are all regularly used - there is demand for more and a long waiting list for very limited member storage. Restaurant storage comprises a 3m x 3m cage in the shed.)

Instead of suggesting boycotts and implying conspiracies which will only drive the sailing community apart, I would invite you to visit the site on a sunny weekend and imagine just how good it could be as a hub for marine sporting events. And maybe even recognise that increased maintenance costs for a small group of boat owners could actually be for the greater good of the sport and long term survival of one of New Zealand’s oldest yacht clubs.

[K4309 258]

30 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

In an era of declining participation and increasing compliance costs many sports clubs around the country face an uncertain future. Yacht clubs are no exception. So should they keep doing what they’ve always done with some tweaks around the edges and slip further into decline? Or make some fundamental changes to ensure a sustainable future?

Royal Akarana Yacht Club has chosen the latter. Giving up their exclusive use of their site in Okahu Bay and opening up to a variety of marine user groups along with some very generous donations the Marine Sports Centre has taken shape. Visit the site on a sunny weekend and you will immediately see its popularity. Hundreds of people using the site for many different activities, mostly but not exclusively marine related. Dinghy sailing and paddle sports being the most popular. But they have a long way to go to ensure long term survival. They have plans for national and international events which will drive participation and encourage growth in dinghy sailing (which will in turn filter sailors through to keelboats), growing their very successful learn to sail programs as well as continuing their former core activities such as offshore keelboat racing. And now that will be along side other marine sports such as Waka Ama, rather then competing against them for resources. This is in part funded by the restaurant and event centre on site, a very necessary part of ensuring a sustainable operation. 

So then there is The Landing hardstand. An anomaly in Auckland it was neither club owned or fully commercial. Run by a private contractor but funded by Auckland Council for the exclusive use of a fortunate few, in a location that is no longer and probably never was particularly well suited to its use. When the consultation was opened on the hardstand’s future the Marine Sports Centre and RAYC recognised the sites huge potential as a hub for marine events, as well as turning The Landing into a space that people want to visit to further encourage growth. And yes additional storage for club boats in an age where people don’t have the means to own their own boats, or space to store them at home. (As a side note there about 60 club boats in the Marine Sports Centre and ASC boat sheds, another 30 club dinghies within the Centre footprint, 60 surfskis in two 40’ containers in the carpark, several Waka on the grass in front, 20 or so more Waka elsewhere on the site and another 40 odd members boats either on the ramp or in the back carpark. At least 200 boats in total which are all regularly used - there is demand for more and a long waiting list for very limited member storage. Restaurant storage comprises a 3m x 3m cage in the shed.)

Instead of suggesting boycotts and implying conspiracies which will only drive the sailing community apart, I would invite you to visit the site on a sunny weekend and imagine just how good it could be as a hub for marine sporting events. And maybe even recognise that increased maintenance costs for a small group of boat owners could actually be for the greater good of the sport and long term survival of one of New Zealand’s oldest yacht clubs.

Is it true the main financial donor also owns the Tamaki Marine Park and will profit financially if lower priced / DIY competition is removed?

[Timberwolfy 62]

3 hours ago, Okahu Sailor said:

In an era of declining participation and increasing compliance costs many sports clubs around the country face an uncertain future. Yacht clubs are no exception. So should they keep doing what they’ve always done with some tweaks around the edges and slip further into decline? Or make some fundamental changes to ensure a sustainable future?

Royal Akarana Yacht Club has chosen the latter. Giving up their exclusive use of their site in Okahu Bay and opening up to a variety of marine user groups along with some very generous donations the Marine Sports Centre has taken shape. Visit the site on a sunny weekend and you will immediately see its popularity. Hundreds of people using the site for many different activities, mostly but not exclusively marine related. Dinghy sailing and paddle sports being the most popular. But they have a long way to go to ensure long term survival. They have plans for national and international events which will drive participation and encourage growth in dinghy sailing (which will in turn filter sailors through to keelboats), growing their very successful learn to sail programs as well as continuing their former core activities such as offshore keelboat racing. And now that will be along side other marine sports such as Waka Ama, rather then competing against them for resources. This is in part funded by the restaurant and event centre on site, a very necessary part of ensuring a sustainable operation. 

So then there is The Landing hardstand. An anomaly in Auckland it was neither club owned or fully commercial. Run by a private contractor but funded by Auckland Council for the exclusive use of a fortunate few, in a location that is no longer and probably never was particularly well suited to its use. When the consultation was opened on the hardstand’s future the Marine Sports Centre and RAYC recognised the sites huge potential as a hub for marine events, as well as turning The Landing into a space that people want to visit to further encourage growth. And yes additional storage for club boats in an age where people don’t have the means to own their own boats, or space to store them at home. (As a side note there about 60 club boats in the Marine Sports Centre and ASC boat sheds, another 30 club dinghies within the Centre footprint, 60 surfskis in two 40’ containers in the carpark, several Waka on the grass in front, 20 or so more Waka elsewhere on the site and another 40 odd members boats either on the ramp or in the back carpark. At least 200 boats in total which are all regularly used - there is demand for more and a long waiting list for very limited member storage. Restaurant storage comprises a 3m x 3m cage in the shed.)

Instead of suggesting boycotts and implying conspiracies which will only drive the sailing community apart, I would invite you to visit the site on a sunny weekend and imagine just how good it could be as a hub for marine sporting events. And maybe even recognise that increased maintenance costs for a small group of boat owners could actually be for the greater good of the sport and long term survival of one of New Zealand’s oldest yacht clubs.

Lol, I'd love to know how many people were on the committee that wrote this simpering drivel.

"The exclusive use of a fortunate few..." Give me a break! I'd love to compare how many boats moved through that space annually in order to keep themselves running for cruising and racing, then add up how many people got access to the water from attending said cruises and races, against your tally of dinghies and paddlers and the like. Only then could possibly I be willing to hear out your argument in good faith.

And for the record, I *have* spent a *lot* of sunny weekends there in the last 7 years. I was maintaining my old keelboat, then redesigning my transom and repairing my rotten bow deck on the Wolf. And you know what? There was always space to share, and the folks having a nosy with their kids around the boatyard were kind, and interested, and never acted like we were out of place. In fact, the only ones who seemed to have a problem with it were the folks who are now clamouring so loudly that this is unfair to sailors.

[Black Panther 1,587]

which will in turn filter sailors through to keelboats), 

Keep this up and there won't be any keelboats left.

[Okahu Sailor 16]

8 hours ago, Timberwolfy said:

Lol, I'd love to know how many people were on the committee that wrote this simpering drivel.

"The exclusive use of a fortunate few..." Give me a break! I'd love to compare how many boats moved through that space annually in order to keep themselves running for cruising and racing, then add up how many people got access to the water from attending said cruises and races, against your tally of dinghies and paddlers and the like. Only then could possibly I be willing to hear out your argument in good faith.

And for the record, I *have* spent a *lot* of sunny weekends there in the last 7 years. I was maintaining my old keelboat, then redesigning my transom and repairing my rotten bow deck on the Wolf. And you know what? There was always space to share, and the folks having a nosy with their kids around the boatyard were kind, and interested, and never acted like we were out of place. In fact, the only ones who seemed to have a problem with it were the folks who are now clamouring so loudly that this is unfair to sailors.

I'm not on any RAYC committees but I am a member and managed to write all that drivel myself. 

My understanding is the hardstand had in the region of 300 users a year. The Marine Sports Centre would easily do that in a weekend themselves, then add to that all the other groups that could use the space - other waka ama clubs, SUP and sailors that have nothing to do with the club. But the point is they are looking at long term sustainability and want to be bigger and better. How awesome would it be to have the Opti World champs, a Laser World Champs, Youth Worlds etc at The Landing which the RAYC will be able to host. Fishing tournaments, Waka Ama nationals (3500 athletes, 10,000 spectators!), Triathlons, Swimming races... 

From the local board side they represent the community in which they also live (Before you ask - I'm not on the local board either). While I understand the need for boat yards I don't understand why a local board should be forced to provide an exclusive facility for private boat maintenance in a local park, that has increasing demand from many other users. Just because its always been there is not a reason for it to continue. 

Then there is the argument of hardstand capacity. If you listened to the AYBA you'd think demand far outstrips supply and every yard is full to capacity year round. This is absolutely not true, living locally I would rarely see The Landing at capacity even with heavily subsidised rates, the Christmas rush not withstanding. Another argument I keep seeing for retention of The Landing hardstand is because of the specialised Roodberg Boat Lift. This has nothing to do with location and everything to do with the lift itself. Presumably this thing is looking for a new home and could be located at any yard with a slipway. 

And look I'm sure you've done your research but why is it you can't use Hibiscus Marine who have a mobile crane on site and specialise in lifting multihulls? Or Fusion Marine who have a slipway, Stillwater, BBYC...  you're only other option is Whangarei, even if the Roodberg lift was moved to another yard?

From a quick google these yards all remain in Auckland - maybe there is more or less? I'm sure someone here will know? Orams and Halfmoon bay have expanded massively for those that want professional services and the club run yards still exist for those that want to DIY, but you might have to do some volunteering first. (Although as far as I know the bigger yards still allow DIY, I get they are more expensive though.)

1. Hobsonville

2. Orams

3. Halfmoon Bay

4. Pine Harbour

5. Gulf Harbour

6. Tamaki Marine Park

7. Greenhithe (slipway)

8. Te Atatu (slipway - club run)

9. Devonport (slipway - club run)

10. Milford (slipway - club run)

11. Fusion Marine (slipway)

12. Hibiscus Marine (mobile crane on site - well suited to multihulls)

13. Sandspit (slipway - club run)

14. Stillwater (slipway - club run)

15. BBYC (slipway - club run)

16. Weiti Boating Club (slipway - club run)

17. Waiheke Boating Club (slipway - club run)

 

 

[K4309 258]

10 hours ago, Timberwolfy said:

Lol, I'd love to know how many people were on the committee that wrote this simpering drivel.

It is very well written. And it's not been posted by a regular forum user. Looks a lot like a professional. Like a hired Communications Consultant. Or a PR specialist.

A guess that is what you get when you have a lot of vested interests working in the background.

[K4309 258]

9 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

I'm not on any RAYC committees but I am a member and managed to write all that drivel myself. 

My understanding is the hardstand had in the region of 300 users a year. The Marine Sports Centre would easily do that in a weekend themselves, then add to that all the other groups that could use the space - other waka ama clubs, SUP and sailors that have nothing to do with the club. But the point is they are looking at long term sustainability and want to be bigger and better. How awesome would it be to have the Opti World champs, a Laser World Champs, Youth Worlds etc at The Landing which the RAYC will be able to host. Fishing tournaments, Waka Ama nationals (3500 athletes, 10,000 spectators!), Triathlons, Swimming races... 

From the local board side they represent the community in which they also live (Before you ask - I'm not on the local board either). While I understand the need for boat yards I don't understand why a local board should be forced to provide an exclusive facility for private boat maintenance in a local park, that has increasing demand from many other users. Just because its always been there is not a reason for it to continue. 

Then there is the argument of hardstand capacity. If you listened to the AYBA you'd think demand far outstrips supply and every yard is full to capacity year round. This is absolutely not true, living locally I would rarely see The Landing at capacity even with heavily subsidised rates, the Christmas rush not withstanding. Another argument I keep seeing for retention of The Landing hardstand is because of the specialised Roodberg Boat Lift. This has nothing to do with location and everything to do with the lift itself. Presumably this thing is looking for a new home and could be located at any yard with a slipway. 

And look I'm sure you've done your research but why is it you can't use Hibiscus Marine who have a mobile crane on site and specialise in lifting multihulls? Or Fusion Marine who have a slipway, Stillwater, BBYC...  you're only other option is Whangarei, even if the Roodberg lift was moved to another yard?

From a quick google these yards all remain in Auckland - maybe there is more or less? I'm sure someone here will know? Orams and Halfmoon bay have expanded massively for those that want professional services and the club run yards still exist for those that want to DIY, but you might have to do some volunteering first. (Although as far as I know the bigger yards still allow DIY, I get they are more expensive though.)

1. Hobsonville

2. Orams

3. Halfmoon Bay

4. Pine Harbour

5. Gulf Harbour

6. Tamaki Marine Park

7. Greenhithe (slipway)

8. Te Atatu (slipway - club run)

9. Devonport (slipway - club run)

10. Milford (slipway - club run)

11. Fusion Marine (slipway)

12. Hibiscus Marine (mobile crane on site - well suited to multihulls)

13. Sandspit (slipway - club run)

14. Stillwater (slipway - club run)

15. BBYC (slipway - club run)

16. Weiti Boating Club (slipway - club run)

17. Waiheke Boating Club (slipway - club run)

 

 

So what you are saying, to paraphrase, is that Royal Akarana want more space.

The current users of the hardstand aren't important to Royal Akarana, and you have the connections and influence to get what you want.

Not keen on answering the question on your financial donors vested interest in the Tamaki Marine Park?

[Clipper 343]

I don't care how well written it was (and it was).

For a yacht club to actively support the shutting down of a facility that is important to so many boaties is something I disagree with. I note there is support from AYBA, other yacht clubs, YNZ to try and keep it going. Seems RAYC is well in the minority?

I have competed in a number of great RAYC races in the past (Fiji, White Island, 350).

Never again will I race with RAYC. And I know of many active racing sailors who say the same.

 

[Okahu Sailor 16]

2 minutes ago, K4309 said:

It is very well written. And it's not been posted by a regular forum user. Looks a lot like a professional. Like a hired Communications Consultant. Or a PR specialist.

A guess that is what you get when you have a lot of vested interests working in the background.

Well I'm glad you appreciate my writing. You're obviously hellbent on finding a conspiracy but all I can tell you is that there isn't one - that the clubs reasons for supporting the closure are genuine. You don't have to agree with their reasons, but I'm sick of seeing some of the absolute rubbish out there, a PR specialist - really?! Go to the club and speak with Nicky the GM or Nick the Commodore. You won't see hired communications consultants but you will find genuine hard working people that are passionate about the future of the club and rightly or wrongly believe that closure is in the club's best interests hence their support. 

[Timberwolfy 62]

Of course the closure is in the club's best interests -- they are interested in money and a bigger carpark. None of those dirty DIY yachties. Melges 40s craning out at Tamaki Marine Park are the way of the future for "the fortunate few" as you call them!

 

https://infocouncil.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/Open/2022/12/20221208_OR_AGN_11150_AT_files/20221208_OR_AGN_11150_AT_Attachment_91434_4.PDF

Page 2 (by document page numbers; 5th page of the pdf file):

• "When all boats are antifouled annually, capacity is 33% of the fleet for Auckland"
• "Relevant points from the distance analysis are:
  • There is insufficient overall capacity in the 18-month and 12-month scenarios.
  • Boat location is not matched with facility location, suggesting a significant number of boats must travel to be antifouled, potentially creating a biosecurity risk.
  • In general boats can reach a facility within 50 nautical miles, but demand for services locally may mean boats have to travel further."

A sailing world champs was held at Okahu Bay while my friend had his cat hauled. He let the sailors hang out in the shade under his boat to eat lunch and listen to the music he had playing while he worked. Everyone shared the space happily. Like, y'know, adults. Or well-taught 5-year-olds.

Thank you for the list of facilities. I have done extensive research and yet some were still new to me (it's amazing what happens when we work together, isn't it?). Unfortunately, a significant number of the options you listed cannot handle my weird footprint of 10.6 LOA * 7.6 beam (and I am not able to use the Roodberg at all). Orams, for example, won't take me because I'm too short for their big travelift and too wide for their little one. They also aren't taking smaller keelboats unless you've got a friend working there (I know several 8-11m keelboats who have been refused). I have had to acquire a cradle because every location I contacted that could safely haul me didn't have anything to put me on.

[K4309 258]

14 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

Well I'm glad you appreciate my writing. You're obviously hellbent on finding a conspiracy but all I can tell you is that there isn't one - that the clubs reasons for supporting the closure are genuine. You don't have to agree with their reasons, but I'm sick of seeing some of the absolute rubbish out there, a PR specialist - really?! Go to the club and speak with Nicky the GM or Nick the Commodore. You won't see hired communications consultants but you will find genuine hard working people that are passionate about the future of the club and rightly or wrongly believe that closure is in the club's best interests hence their support. 

I note you won't deny the connection. Good oh.

So your current response is to try and marginalise me with the good old "conspiracy theorist".

You will win your way. You have the connections and influence, oh, and money. But you have lost a lot of respect from the wider boating community for the way you have gone about this and conducted yourself. Just saying.

[waikiore 399]

The Landing is just the latest name for the Okahu Hardstand and formerly Easthaven . Akarana never had any hold over it other than their building footprint-this is expansionist nonsense. The Dinghy sailing numbers look rather pale when compared to the numbers working on boats in the old AHB days when we were hauling /launching 12-13 boats on a tide and families and friends all worked on boats and helped each other learning as we went, this went on at the same time as the Auckland sailing club Q class and eighteen footer sailing -the R class racing and of course the M class Flying fifteen  and various Olympic classes and Cherubs all sailing out of there -and latterly the Waka Ama groups . So your new correspondent perhaps should familiarise themselves with the history of the area and why and for whom it was created -from the dredgings partially.

[Dambo 44]

3 hours ago, Okahu Sailor said:

 

1. Hobsonville

2. Orams

3. Halfmoon Bay

4. Pine Harbour

5. Gulf Harbour

6. Tamaki Marine Park

7. Greenhithe (slipway)

8. Te Atatu (slipway - club run)

9. Devonport (slipway - club run)

10. Milford (slipway - club run)

11. Fusion Marine (slipway)

12. Hibiscus Marine (mobile crane on site - well suited to multihulls)

13. Sandspit (slipway - club run)

14. Stillwater (slipway - club run)

15. BBYC (slipway - club run)

16. Weiti Boating Club (slipway - club run)

17. Waiheke Boating Club (slipway - club run)

 

 

Wow, what a great big list. 
Most of whom won't or can't haul a mid-size tri. (believe me, I've made many, many phone calls)
Listing Te Atatu when we're talking yachts is a f**king joke.
The ones on the list that can haul a mid-size tri mean that for those of us who live close to the city centre now have to travel 2, 3, 4 x as far to get to the yard so no ducking down after work, and significantly adding to the stress on the weekend. I'm seriously considering selling my boat because it's not financially viable solely due to the haul-out situation. 

While I totally appreciate the sentiment of adapting and changing in order to keep the sport alive, I think you need to accept that RAYC has been complicit in expansion for gain at the expense of other yacht owners, and this has made RAYC a pariah within the yachting (particularly the multihull) community. 

[waikiore 399]

Yup, For the club that started offshore racing from here, Ladies racing,-the day larks, winter series racing  etc

they can hang their heads in shame , Perhaps the Squaddy should organise more M class racing -as they and the Victoria used to and leave Akkers to the paddle boards

  

[Timberwolfy 62]

17 minutes ago, Dambo said:

Most of whom won't or can't haul a mid-size tri. (believe me, I've made many, many phone calls)

Ahhh so that explains why some of these places weren't suggested to me when I was asking anyone and everyone during my hunt 🤦‍♀️ 

 

[Okahu Sailor 16]

44 minutes ago, waikiore said:

Yup, For the club that started offshore racing from here, Ladies racing,-the day larks, winter series racing  etc

they can hang their heads in shame , Perhaps the Squaddy should organise more M class racing -as they and the Victoria used to and leave Akkers to the paddle boards

  

I didn't mean to imply the RAYC would - or ever had - control of The Landing space outside of their building footprint. My point is that as a park with a focus on maritime events the space is available to anyone including the RAYC, Marine Sports Centre, Triathlon New Zealand, Barry goes boating - anyone - can then apply for event permits to use the space. To think that as Auckland's population density increases and overall population expands that one relatively small user group can command exclusive use of prime, public, waterfront land - year round - to maintain private vessels is completely unrealistic. If the hardstand survives this year, another few years down the track there will be another attempt from local residents or the wider community to get rid of it and maybe next time it won't be a maritime park it will be a wellness centre, then we are all f*cked. 

You may pine for the good old days but the old days are long gone. One look at the RNZYS finances proves that old model of exclusivity is no longer sustainable and they are also going to need to make fundamental changes to the way they operate if they want to have a future. 

For the RAYC that is a model that revolves around diversified income streams (restaurant and event centre) and expanding their user base to other marine sports (through the Marine Sports Centre). Boycotting a yacht club is cutting of your nose to spite your face, we should all be supporting all of Auckland's yacht clubs and the changes they need to take to ensure they not only survive but thrive in the future. 

[Timberwolfy 62]

Closing boatyards in the name of supporting people having access to the water is cutting off your nose to spite your face too, don't you think?

[Black Panther 1,587]

that one relatively small user group can command exclusive use of prime, public, waterfront land - year round - to maintain private vessels is completely unrealistic. 

 

By that reasoning close everything.