Caulerpa now in BOI

[CarpeDiem 323]

4 minutes ago, Guest said:

Why was the Caulerpa farm allowed to get so large? Where is our enviromental monitoring?

Because NZ has the 9th longest coastline in the world.  The rest is maths.  We simply don't have the people or the money.

[waikiore 321]

I wonder what its like in a stir fry ? Bit of Tamari organic soy ......

[Guest 35]

24 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Because NZ has the 9th longest coastline in the world.  The rest is maths.  We simply don't have the people or the money.

Ok , prioritise areas of highest risk.

[aardvarkash10 846]

2 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

The bottom line is it's here. How it got here and where it came from is academic. 

MPI have spent 100's of thousands officially reaching the conclusion, that with the technology available today, NZ can't get rid of it and we're now in containment mode.

It's known to be easily spread on boat anchors, chains and fishing gear. This is also how it was spread in the Med. 

 

this is the nub of it for me.

Apochrophal miscreant aquarium owners notwithstanding, the problem is now one of post-hoc management.

Anchoring bans are simply a part of that management.

[Guest 35]

Thanks for removing the voting right on my posts AA, why don’t you gag me completely.

[K4309 61]

2 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

I am not the one claiming that these strains are only in Singapore therefore the conclusion is that a yacht could never have bought it here.

 

No one has claimed these strains are only in Singapore, you have made that up. Same as the moderator making sh*t up.

I relayed that the expert said they are native to Singapore. You have decided to add in 'only' native to Singapore.

The basic problem here, is that when confronted with facts that don't confirm with what ever narrative you've all been indoctrinated in, you getting your undies tied in a knot. MPI have put out the narrative that boaties are the problem. When presented with actual facts, instead of an indoctrination, you really don't like it. There is a viable alternative vector to boaties, but MPI wont mention is publicly. Why is that?

[K4309 61]

1 hour ago, waikiore said:

I wonder what its like in a stir fry ? Bit of Tamari organic soy ......

There are potential positives to Caulerpa:

We have a problem with kina barrens right? If kina eat this stuff they go sterile. So, it may well create suitable habitat for nursery fish, and, tadaa, re-balance the Hauraki Gulf. Providing the caulerpa doesn't smother other food sources, this could work really well. The photos I've seen show the eclonia still growning, with the caulerpa around the base. Could just work.

The other thing is the carbon sequestered growing this stuff. Carbon sequestered in the oceans is enough to reverse climate change. There are many projects underway to grow kelp for carbon sequestration. It is incredibly fast growing. So all we need to do is include Caulerpa in the emissions trading scheme, export all the carbon credits, and we will be as wealthy as Saudi Arabia. Genius. Sure, we may not be able to eat the snapper, but if we can't eat beef or lamb due to pine trees, what's the problem? Carbon credits are at about $50/ tonne at the moment aren't they?

[aardvarkash10 846]

2 hours ago, Guest said:

Thanks for removing the voting right on my posts AA, why don’t you gag me completely.

you have mail.

[Guest 35]

2 hours ago, Guest said:

Thanks for removing the voting right on my posts AA, why don’t you gag me completely.

Retract that. Unsubstantiated, probably erroneous. 

[CarpeDiem 323]

3 hours ago, K4309 said:

No one has claimed these strains are only in Singapore, you have made that up. Same as the moderator making sh*t up.

I relayed that the expert said they are native to Singapore. You have decided to add in 'only' native to Singapore.

Err you were the one who stated that the weed originates in Singapore and therefore how very unlikely it would be for a boat to sail directly from Singapore.  You neglected to mention our other nearby neighbors.  Whether it was your intention or not, your statement supported your unnamed gagged experts opinion that it was most likely a rampant disgruntled local aquarium owner with a grudge against the occupants of Great Barrier rather than looking at it critically and sharing that it could of come from an island far closer.

3 hours ago, K4309 said:

The basic problem here, is that when confronted with facts that don't confirm with what ever narrative you've all been indoctrinated in, you getting your undies tied in a knot. MPI have put out the narrative that boaties are the problem. When presented with actual facts, instead of an indoctrination, you really don't like it. There is a viable alternative vector to boaties, but MPI wont mention is publicly. Why is that?

I am not sure what facts you have presented?

Boats are the only 100% certain vector for spread that we have.  That it can be transported in a boats anchor well, on fishing gear, or in the bilge of a boat, is the only fact we actually know.  If you pull up your anchor and it has green weed on it then you can actually see it with your own eyes.  It's not a theory it is a confirmed and actual means of spread.

Riding on a long necked turtles back, arriving in a plastic bag via the postage system, flowing with the currents from the indo-pacific, being distributed by a disgruntled aquarium owner, set on destroying the way of life of the barrier people, arriving on a tanker out of Singapore that empties it's bilge in the Whangarei harbor are all unsubstantiated theories that cannot be proved and thus are not facts.

We can each argue on which theories are most likely.

[Ex Machina 316]

Can I just point out this is the best debate on crew org in quite some time .

[Black Panther 1,415]

10 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Boats are the only 100% certain vector for spread that we have

How did they spread before we invented boats?

[CarpeDiem 323]

2 hours ago, Black Panther said:

How did they spread before we invented boats?

Your question suggests that it has?

It sinks and it doesn't survive at depth. The world's currents take around 500years to do a full circle of the planet so it's had 23 million years to get to our coast.  In that time it hasn't made it across vast distances. 

New Zealand isn't special in this regard, it also hasn't made it (naturally) to West or East Coast of the Americas which are a sh*t load longer than NZs coast.  As we've read in this thread it also hasn't made it naturally into the Med. 

I suspect that the warm surface currents of the tropics only carry it so far before it gets pushed to depths that it cannot survive and turns back into ocean nutrients.

[CarpeDiem 323]

Once introduced it can certainly be carried on coastal currents.

According to MPI the theory is that as it can't survive below 40m so it won't spread to the rest of the gulf anytime soon.

I guess we have to wait and see. 

[Ex Machina 316]

It could probably survive a trip down the drain from east coast road to the nearest beach ?  How would you empty 100+ litre saltwater aquarium ? 
 

it could be well established in a corner of some murky harbour were no one dives and it doesn’t get enough wave movement to get washed up 

[K4309 61]

4 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Your question suggests that it has?

It sinks and it doesn't survive at depth. The world's currents take around 500years to do a full circle of the planet so it's had 23 million years to get to our coast.  In that time it hasn't made it across vast distances. 

New Zealand isn't special in this regard, it also hasn't made it (naturally) to West or East Coast of the Americas which are a sh*t load longer than NZs coast.  As we've read in this thread it also hasn't made it naturally into the Med. 

I suspect that the warm surface currents of the tropics only carry it so far before it gets pushed to depths that it cannot survive and turns back into ocean nutrients.

Erm, so how did the NZ native species of Caulerpa get here?

[K4309 61]

Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks MPI / Biosecurity NZ is doing a sh*t job.

Council seeks urgent Ministerial meeting over seaweed threat

15 May 2023, 9:15 AM

A ‘manifestly insufficient’ response by Biosecurity New Zealand to the threat posed to Taitokerau by invasive Caulerpa seaweed has prompted the Northland Regional Council to seek an urgent meeting with Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor.

In a letter to the Minister the council says the threat posed by the seaweed is of utmost urgency for Northland due to its presence at Great Barrier Island (Aotea), the speed at which it spreads and takes over ecosystems, and the lack of an appropriate response to date by Biosecurity New Zealand (BNZ).

Media releases - Northland Regional Council - Council seeks urgent Ministerial meeting over seaweed threat - Northland Regional Council (nrc.govt.nz)

[K4309 61]

Note: The 2 exotic species of caulerpa present in New Zealand at Aotea Great Barrier Island and Ahuahu Great Mercury Island do not contain this toxin and do not create any food safety issue with consuming fish.

Aquarium Caulerpa | NZ Government (mpi.govt.nz)

So, brachypus and the other one is not toxic. Only the main fish tank variety is. Is this then not the solution to our kina barrens? 

[K4309 61]

1 hour ago, Ex Machina said:

It could probably survive a trip down the drain from east coast road to the nearest beach ?  How would you empty 100+ litre saltwater aquarium ? 
 

it could be well established in a corner of some murky harbour were no one dives and it doesn’t get enough wave movement to get washed up 

Given the initial infestation in Bland Bay had clearly been there for some time, I think it is highly likely that there is more of it around that just hasn't been found or identified yet. There is nothing to suggest the Bland Bay / Barrier infestation was the first patch of growth in NZ.

The stuff at Bland Bay was only discovered because an ecologist was there on holiday, and decided to put a photo of the stuff on a citizen science page cause he didn't know what it was. How many of us bother to find out what genus and species the green sh*t is on the beach when we go for a walk?

Noting that the sample found at Rawhiti is only 20cm apparently. The photo NRC have is it on a scallop shell.

I'm fascinated by the assertion it can't get here on ocean currents and tides cause it sinks. What if its growing on a log? Or any other floating debris. The weather systems have changed markedly with La Nina for the last 3 years, far more north easterlies and the East Auckland current on steroids', hence all of the marine heatwaves. 

[CarpeDiem 323]

1 hour ago, Ex Machina said:

It could probably survive a trip down the drain from east coast road to the nearest beach ?  How would you empty 100+ litre saltwater aquarium ? 
 

it could be well established in a corner of some murky harbour were no one dives and it doesn’t get enough wave movement to get washed up 

Yes. And this is/was one of MPIs working theories when it was first discovered at the Barrier. 

But time is ticking on and the elusive bay hasn't shown up.