Sinking superyacht

[ex Elly 221]

The yacht builder has a vested interest in blaming the skipper.

Interesting comment from Gabriele Bruni (brother of Francesco Bruni, Luna Rossa):

“It’s clear that a lowered keel would have provided more stability to the sailboat in case of strong winds,” Bruni commented. “However, it should also be noted that these vessels often cannot lower the mobile keel completely, especially when near a port. A keel with a depth of 10 meters could easily get stuck among the rocks on the seabed.”

However they were anchored in 49m depth?

 

The forces in a tornado are very localised. The tornado at Westhaven which flipped a large catamaran, left other boats unscathed not far away.

[waikiore 444]

Yes the Chairman of the company that owns Perini Navi has said overnight that she was unsinkable , whilst his company shares are sinking.. 

[Steve Pope 253]

28 minutes ago, waikiore said:

Yes the Chairman of the company that owns Perini Navi has said overnight that she was unsinkable , whilst his company shares are sinking.. 

They said that about the Titanic!

 

[Psyche 726]

Desperately trying to chuck the skipper under the bus for obvious reasons, but without knowledge of the design keelgate is just that- wild speculation and throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks. The boat will have been built under class society regulations which adds a bit more spice to the stability argument. Typically lifting keel cruising boats have most of their ballast internally or in the stub for stability reasons with the lowering board for windward performance but until design data is released its just speculation at this stage if its position contributes to the capsize.

 

[Black Panther 1,691]

It can't have been pushed past 90 degrees by any amount of wind. If any boat goes to that it should not sink. 

[K4309 353]

1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

It can't have been pushed past 90 degrees by any amount of wind. If any boat goes to that it should not sink. 

The only (logical) explanation I can think of is if they left the toy garage doors open overnight. If they did do that, then the captain and crew will be up for legit criticism. Personally, I can't image a boat doing that, not with 10 crew, it's not like they don't have enough people to tidy the toys up properly, oh, and noting from that article and vid posted above, they moved out to that anchorage about 10pm local time, so not like they had a day playing at anchor and simply didn't get around to closing the garage doors.

They only other explanation is this was straight out just an Act of God. As in an extreme and very rare, very localised intense weather feature. Given the guys mate got ran down and killed by a car the day before, it sounds more like Devine intervention than anything logical.

As an aside, it is becoming fashionable for recreational yachts to have large openings near water level. Trends in Euro yacht design is to have a dinghy garage inside the transom. It would be interesting how they keep the water out of those, and what effect it has on stability if it is half full of water (half full being worse than completely full, as you get the free body effect, sloshing from side to side.

A couple of years back I had a look on a large Euro stink pot at the boat show, It's grand design feature was a 'cabana beach club' at the transom. That was a cabin with floor below water level at the transom, a large lifting hatch the beam of the boat, and like a boarding / swim platform infront. The cabin facing the swim platform had a bar and barstools etc, kind of like a swim up bar you get in tacky Merica. What I can't recall was the freeboard of all this set up. My recollection was the bar and cabin hatch wasn't much higher than the water level, maybe 1 or 2 feet. Certainly enough to get wake it from your average Rivitmo pegging it through the anchorage. I made a comment to the sales guy about it, and he mumble something about bilge pumps.

Anyway, great sales feature in a glassy calm bay or marina, a bit marginal if you think about the risk of down flooding.

Wonder if I can find the boat.

[waikiore 444]

In the case of being hit by one of these localised tornado -I would far rather be on my little Kauri log than any of the superyachts I have been on, much less cleaning up and unlikely to have water down below , though having said that -whilst single handing a few years back I got knocked down by a Katabatic gust and skidded sideways so much the cockpit was filling and when she came upright water sloshed inside as I had no washboards in, current boat has 3000kg more lead on her ... 

[K4309 353]

Bayesian AVS with the keel up is 73deg, 

but keel down doesn't help much, AVS 88deg.

Contrast, That wouldn't even get YNZ Cat 5.

Refer YNZ safety regulations:
"Limit of Positive Stability"
Cat3 - 100deg
Cat4 - 95 deg
Cat5 - 95 deg,

And:
6.02(k) d:
For yachts complying with Category 4 and 5,

it may be demonstrated that compliance is

achieved by demonstrating a physical pulldown test in which the masthead shall be

pulled down until it touches the surface of

the water. The yacht will maintain a positive

righting moment at all times during the test

Bayesian couldn't achieve that, with an AVS of 88 deg, the mast could not reach the water in a pull down test without the boat capsizing...

AVS data from the Financial Times, story quoting the Chairman of Italian Sea Group, which owns Perini Navi.

Bayesian maker says crew should have had time to rescue passengers (ft.com)

[Rats 44]

Somewhat ironic that a superyacht sinks and everyone's suddenly positioning for the coming  lawsuit city Italy tour.

Meanwhile boat loads of poor brown people fleeing shithole countries in search of a better life and freedom, sink daily but they have been reduced to a mere comma in the ongoing narrative obsessed with the how and why a rich dude died on his very large special boat.

A large theatrical song and dance will proceed but at the end of the day we will come back to the quaint term Perils of the Sea, occasionally unexpected sh*t will happen.

You can try and plan for most of it but every so now and then,  mother nature is going to circumvent it all.

Bloody sad they are going to try and hang this all on a well regarded NZ Captain.

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

43 minutes ago, Rats said:

Meanwhile boat loads of poor brown people fleeing shithole countries in search of a better life and freedom, sink daily but they have been reduced to a mere comma in the ongoing narrative obsessed with the how and why a rich dude died on his very large special boat.

 

[K4309 353]

57 minutes ago, Rats said:

Somewhat ironic that a superyacht sinks and everyone's suddenly positioning for the coming  lawsuit city Italy tour.

Meanwhile boat loads of poor brown people fleeing shithole countries in search of a better life and freedom, sink daily but they have been reduced to a mere comma in the ongoing narrative obsessed with the how and why a rich dude died on his very large special boat.

A large theatrical song and dance will proceed but at the end of the day we will come back to the quaint term Perils of the Sea, occasionally unexpected sh*t will happen.

You can try and plan for most of it but every so now and then,  mother nature is going to circumvent it all.

Bloody sad they are going to try and hang this all on a well regarded NZ Captain.

Possibly cause we know how the poor brown people are dieing, just no one gives a sh*t. Strewth, half of England is throwing bricks at Cops to stop them being allowed to live next door.

We also know exactly how over 40,000 have died in Palestine, but for some strange reason the whole western world is falling over themselves to supply more weapons so some more can be killed. For some reason no-one wants to talk about that either, I suspect I'll be torn a new one for daring to even mention the genocide, but each to their own.

There is a high degree of mystery and curiosity as to how a 180ft superyacht managed to sink. Most people would think discussing that is a fairly safe topic. Especially on a sailing site. No?

[Rats 44]

1 hour ago, K4309 said:

Possibly cause we know how the poor brown people are dieing, just no one gives a sh*t. Strewth, half of England is throwing bricks at Cops to stop them being allowed to live next door.

We also know exactly how over 40,000 have died in Palestine, but for some strange reason the whole western world is falling over themselves to supply more weapons so some more can be killed. For some reason no-one wants to talk about that either, I suspect I'll be torn a new one for daring to even mention the genocide, but each to their own.

There is a high degree of mystery and curiosity as to how a 180ft superyacht managed to sink. Most people would think discussing that is a fairly safe topic. Especially on a sailing site. No?

All for that and have commented on Sailing Anarchy but the site has now been flooded with newbies, armchair engineers, experts that obviously have no clue about that they wish to talk about and of course the conspiracy theorists.

Talk about giving a moron a mouth piece to confirm their stupidity, and No I'm not calling you the moron.

Just find the trail by Public Opinion thing getting a little out of control not to mention the dichotomy of 7 rich folks drowning in tragic circumstances after celebrating Lynch being acquitted in a multi billion dollar stoush with HP vs 29,727 ( Thanks Aardvarkash ) poor folk drowning in the last ten years seeking a better life.

[eruptn 103]

What she looked like 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/488556607259177

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

4 hours ago, K4309 said:

There is a high degree of mystery and curiosity as to how a 180ft superyacht managed to sink. Most people would think discussing that is a fairly safe topic. Especially on a sailing site. No?

Agree with your sentiment K, or as I understand it.

To move away from geopolitics and into media and advertising, the reason we are in thrall with this is that we are fed it.

I'd expect interest on a site like crew or anarchy, but the wider interest globally is the result of media selling advertising.  Nothing else. 

There is no deep public interest in the narrow subject area of "billionaires dying in unusual circumstances".

There is, however, a fatburg of schadenfreude and celebrity fascination that makes this stuff a goldmine for ratings.

[K4309 353]

14 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

Agree with your sentiment K, or as I understand it.

To move away from geopolitics and into media and advertising, the reason we are in thrall with this is that we are fed it.

I'd expect interest on a site like crew or anarchy, but the wider interest globally is the result of media selling advertising.  Nothing else. 

There is no deep public interest in the narrow subject area of "billionaires dying in unusual circumstances".

There is, however, a fatburg of schadenfreude and celebrity fascination that makes this stuff a goldmine for ratings.

Absolutely Aardvark.

I understand where Rats is coming from too, it is a bit of a first world problem having your superyacht sink, especially in contrast to so many of the world's humanitarian issues. The part I am interested in is the how bit, which is relevant to a sailing forum, I'm hoping.

It is certainly an intriguing story that the guy died on his sinking superyacht whilst celebrating winning a huge fraud trail on said superyacht with his lawyers and supporters, the day after his co accused got killed being hit by a car. That is just red meat for the MSM and click-baiting platforms. I haven't checked out the conspiracy theories, and to be honest, I don't really know where to go to find them, but on this one I bet they are good.

[LBD 169]

I heard is was a weather "BOMB"

Lets see what the chinese wispers make of that.

 

[Zozza 324]

Homicide investigation now.  I dunno, sometimes we just have to accept there are - for want of a better term - 'Acts of God' that happen.  A hot summer night in Italy, probably lots of hatches open....they are going to try pin the blame on the Captain?  Like most of these things there will be lots of little things that contributed to this ultimate tragedy, from the design right through to the localised weather bomb.
One thing that does strike me - a lot of smaller boats went practically unscathed.  Take from that what you will, but reinforces to me that a larger yacht is not necessarily a safer yacht.  

[Island Time 1,284]

Well, this is interesting "the builder Perini, has stated Bayesian had positive stability to 73 degrees with the board up and 88 degrees with the board down."

 

[Island Time 1,284]

On 25/08/2024 at 1:01 PM, Island Time said:

Well, this is interesting "the builder Perini, has stated Bayesian had positive stability to 73 degrees with the board up and 88 degrees with the board down."

 

So she would have capsized in a mast on the water incident with everything battened down! That, IMO is not a seaworthy keel yacht...

[K4309 353]

On 23/08/2024 at 9:13 PM, K4309 said:

Bayesian AVS with the keel up is 73deg, 

but keel down doesn't help much, AVS 88deg.

Contrast, That wouldn't even get YNZ Cat 5.

Refer YNZ safety regulations:
"Limit of Positive Stability"
Cat3 - 100deg
Cat4 - 95 deg
Cat5 - 95 deg,

And:
6.02(k) d:
For yachts complying with Category 4 and 5,

it may be demonstrated that compliance is

achieved by demonstrating a physical pulldown test in which the masthead shall be

pulled down until it touches the surface of

the water. The yacht will maintain a positive

righting moment at all times during the test

Bayesian couldn't achieve that, with an AVS of 88 deg, the mast could not reach the water in a pull down test without the boat capsizing...

AVS data from the Financial Times, story quoting the Chairman of Italian Sea Group, which owns Perini Navi.

Bayesian maker says crew should have had time to rescue passengers (ft.com)

Def not a seaworthy vessel IT, if it can't make NZ Cat 5.