Jon 160 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Below is the start of the SSANZ safety plan I won’t bore you with the whole doc. By the way I was taking the piss with F. Was thinking Fonterra but that’s maybe a bridge too far, my point was people get to the point the believe their own BS and think they can’t fail SSANZ Triple Series 2019 – Safety Plan This safety plan has been written to assist with managing competitor, volunteer, and third party safety during the SSANZ Triple Series races. The Race Officer, and the members of the Race Committee are the people responsible for executing this plan. This plan will be published on the event notice board, and its general tenor will be explained to competitors at the event briefing. In scope: - Long Haul, Short Haul, Multihull, and Small Boat divisions competing in SSANZ Triple Series races - On-the water competitor safety - Safety of the general public interacting with competitors or volunteers on the water Out-of-Scope: - All other yacht racing (separate safety plans) - On-shore safety of competitors, volunteers and the public, other than those performing a race management function - Safety of competitors while rigging and de-rigging yachts - Safety of competitors while delivering yachts to or from local marina’s on race day - Safety of competitors while delivering yachts to or from Auckland to compete in any race in the SSANZ Triple Series. This plan recognises the difference between (a) safety and ( compliance with safety regulations. A person who complies with safety regulations may not be safe, while a person who does not comply with safety regulations may be safe. This plan will compensate where the safety regulations do not adequately address a safety issue. Reference Documents: - - Notice of race - Sailing instructions - Appendix 1 – Risk analysis and treatment - Appendix 2 – Safety equipment - Appendix 3 – Safety inspections - Appendix 4 – CAT 4 Monohull Safety inspection worksheet - Appendix 5 – Multihull Safety inspection worksheet - Appendix 6 – Mitigation tasks - Appendix 7 – Briefing notes - Appendix 8 – Failed communications plan - Appendix 9 – Crisis Management Plan - Abbreviations: RCCNZ – Rescue Co-Ordination Centre NZRO – Race OfficerRC – Race Committee APPENDIX 1 – RISK ANALYSIS AND TREATMENT Severity of Harm 1 – Little or No Harm 2 – Some Harm 3 – Moderate Harm 4 – Significant Harm 5 – Extensive Harm Likelihood of Harm A – Very Unlikely B – Possible C – Even chance D – Likely E – Almost certain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 803 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 By the way I was taking the piss with F. Was thinking Fonterra but that’s maybe a bridge too far, my point was people get to the point the believe their own BS and think they can’t fail That is a salient and very valid point. And this bit in the safety plan is gold This plan recognises the difference between (a) safety and (b compliance with safety regulations. A person who complies with safety regulations may not be safe, while a person who does not comply with safety regulations may be safe. This plan will compensate where the safety regulations do not adequately address a safety issue. This line above, the bit that people may comply with all the regulations but not be safe, is why I believe a refreshed appraoch is needed to the cat regulations. What I was expecting from the SSANZ safety plan (and not having cheated and gone had a look on the SSANZ website, where I've seen it located before) is that you are using a risk based model, the cornerstone of which is risk (severity) and likelihood. That gives the platform for managing everything else through the process. This is a good example of the type of approach I believe the YNZ processes would benefit from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 160 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 That reminds me we haven’t included this on our new website. Just because we have a plan doesn’t mean we run safer races, in someways it allows us to run closer to the edge However if or when sh*t happens, because it will, we have a document that states we will do a,b,c then d The other thing we do is document decision making, just a pad on the committee boat (something I need to get better at) this was done for the last race 0700 hrs forecast has remain the same strength over night and is likely to last longer, decision made to drop Gannet Rk from the following divisions Pied Piper, Baltic 1 and 2 And drop Cow Is and Black Rks from Doyle’s and PIC divisions 0730 NTC posted on website as per decision above.etc..... I do the same type of thing as skipper offshore Pad on chart table, first thing before departure I put down a safe water waypoint, so if we had to go to a handheld gps then we have a position that we know we can head for, that will be within sight of destination but in plenty of water, often 10+nm off Many times I won’t add anything else but something I’ll record our position at noon and distance covered over last 24hrs. But generally even though we have two chartplotters running everyone onboard uses my iPad with a route showing all details that are required, USB socket in cockpit table is very useful 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 104 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 A word of caution around qualitative risk scoring systems, like the probability consequence model above. Watch for the high consequence/low probability events as under some scoring systems they are not given much weight due to the low probability. If it does happen, its a catastrophe so its worth giving them due regard. I might be telling people here to suck eggs, apologies if I am but it bears repeating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 160 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Good point Ed, especially in your line of work and in our more extended event. But it can happen sailing to the start so complacencies or dangerous “Safety is no accident” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 On 1/03/2019 at 12:31 PM, ex Elly said: Lead lines got removed from the rules about 8 years ago. I was surprised there wasn't any outcry at the time. Cheaper and lighter than a leadline. https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/parts-accessories/fish-finders/listing-2599473309.htm?rsqid=1b86592db08d4a25988cff2e24436f7e-001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 350 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 On 21/04/2020 at 8:06 PM, Deep Purple said: Cheaper and lighter than a leadline. https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/parts-accessories/fish-finders/listing-2599473309.htm?rsqid=1b86592db08d4a25988cff2e24436f7e-001 Theres a catch to those ,must be stopped and smooth water.Tried one out ,thought for the price cant go wrong.might be ok in a kayak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Not suggesting anyone uses it. Just to be cat4/5 compliant. I’m working my way through the list and ordering everything I need online. There sure is a lot of rubbish written there and unnecessary costs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
44forty 112 Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 When I was looking for boat I had my eye on a few in Oz , all quick T yachts . Two of them had fishfinder/chartplotters for plotting and GPS speed . Way cheaper than a yachting specific plotter and they readily fit onto a swivelling arm bracket . Our backup GPS for Cat3 is a Bad-elf pro but we leave it on full time and Bluetooth our phones to it . Makes plotting apps work faster (Cmaps and Navionics) especially in weak cell areas . you are right about unnecessary costs and rubbish you end up with a boat full of plastic crap that mostly gets left at home for club racing . you will quickly find out your new boat is not phone friendly ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 I've put together this. The italics are my thoughts Cat 4/5 Racing A summary of the equipment rules 11.0 – Cockpits and Companionways 11.1 Companionway blocking arrangements shall be secure and operable from inside and out – Recommendation only 11.2 Companionway needs to be blocked off to level of deck. No instruction as to what “blocked off means” Words such as solid or waterproof are not mentioned but….. 11.3 All cockpits below main deck level must be “essentially watertight that is, all openings to the hull below main deck level must be capable of being strongly and rigidly secured. You need a solid, firm fitting washboard to deck level but not the rest of the companionway but see 13.09 13.0 – Flooding Prevention, Hatches, Windows, Bilge Pumps 13.01 The hull….. shall form an essentially water-tight unit and any openings shall be capable of being immediately secured to maintain this integrity 13.09 Companionway doors……. Must be able to be made strong and watertight. Rebates for slides must be particularly strong This seems at odds with 11.1 and why are companionways mentioned here when there is a separate section on companionways and blocking where it is a recommendation only. 13.14 One manual bilge pump 13.19 Two buckets No issue there. From experience a scared man with a bucket can move water faster than any bilge pump if the boat interior lends itself to it. 15.0 – Masts, Spars, Rigging and Sails 15.11 Tools including hacksaw, hammer and drift No issue there. Again, from experience. 15.19 Sail repair kit. A decent stash of sticky-back in a water-proof container should be enough surely. 16.0 – Accomodation 16.03 Toilet or fitted bucket One of the buckets in 13.9 with a lid should do 16.04 Bunks 16.05 (M) 2 permanently installed bunks recommendation only Reading that, 16.04 seems to override 16.05 16.13 Securely installed water tank What is the point of this if you don’t have a galley. How do you get the water out? 17.0 – Safety Systems 17.02 2 fire extinguishers, total 4kg I think overkill on a boat without cooking facilities but I can live with it. 17.13 Lifebuoy, drogue whistle and light 17.14 Heaving Line 17.15 Knife 17.29 Anchor and warp 17.33 (K) and 17.34 (M) Grab bags – Recommended for keelboats only, compulsory for multihulls 17.35 First Aid Kit No issue with any of these 17.17 Lifelines sizing – Recommendation only 17.25 Pulpits, bow and stern – Recommendation only 17.27 Toe-rails are compulsory or an extra lifeline 17.23 (K) Jackstays on keelboats recommended only 17.28 (a) (M) Jackstays on multihulls compulsory at Cat4 There is no clause that says you have to have lifelines or not but 17.17 suggests you don’t. There are a number of rules if you do have them. 17.25 under Pulpits, branches off into talking about lifelines again 18.0 – Communications 18.2 (ii) (K) and 18.2 (iii) (M) Handheld VHF No issue with this 18.3 Radio receiver capable of receiving weather bulletins 18.4 Category 5 must carry a handheld VHF OR a cellphone I used to carry a little transistor but one day the inspector told me the VHF qualifies for that. This would only seem to be necessary under Cat5 without a VHF 18.6 EPIRB or PLB recommendation only I think these should be compulsory in Cat4 overnight races 18.7 Flares under 3 years old but some under 5 can be carried in addition I would prefer to see each type of flare have 50/50 mix between 3 and 5 years old if a PLB carried 19.0 – Navigation 19.01 Installed Compass 19.03 (b) (c) (f) Charts, plotting equipment and manuals No issue with any of these 19.03 (a) Tide tables Available on VHF and cellphone in most areas 19.04 (d) Echo (Depth) Sounder - compulsory 19.04 (e) GPS or Log – recommended only A GPS is much more use than a depth sounder. No requirement for the depth sounder to be permanently installed 19.07 and 19.08 Navigation lights permanently mounted and wired Permanently mounted must be for the duration of the race. Wired can only mean you don’t have to run cables and clips to use them for example wired could mean internally wired to removable batteries. There is no requirement for them to be fed by a 12v system, you could run wires to 3 cell battery pack. In my experience fixed nav lights are fraught with unreliability and modern removable options are much more reliable and give options for maintain the integrity of the system. Personally, I don’t like masthead lights at all. When sailing you are looking at the waves and horizon, not up in the air, and approaching the city masthead lights get lost in the clutter. 19.09 Fog Horn I really can’t see why this is needed and question if they have ever been used 20.0 – Engineering 20.01 An engine - Recommended only 20.05 If you do have an engine it is recommended that it can push the boat at the square root of the waterline length in feet Several other clauses effect if you have an engine and all are reasonable 20.13 Outboard fuel tanks and operating There is no requirement for an outboard to have a separate fuel tank. Inbuilt tanks are fine, however topping them up must be able to be done safely without leaning way over the back. The outboard can likewise be removed if safe to do so. 20.14 and 20.16 Sea cocks and plugs 19.03 (b) (c) (f) Charts, plotting equipment and manuals No issue with any of these 22.0 Sail Numbers and Name 22.1 Sail numbers and name on the hull 22.4 Identification on equipment No issues but note the name and sail number can be anywhere on the hull which can be the stern TRAILER YACHT Many events include keelboats, multihulls and trailer yachts in the same fleet. These are the variations to the keelboat/multihull rules which shows the people writing them don’t talk to each other much. Some of these are quite significant 7.09 Washboards or effective waterproof covers are permissible for companionways 7.09 Fittings bow and stern suitable for towing are required 9.01 Yachts shall carry a fixed or portable ladder for getting from the water 9.03 The yachts name and number shall be on the side only 9.05 You must carry a boathook 9.06 You must carry a towline twice the boats length 10.3 Navigation lights shall be fitted to and operational on all yachts sailing after sunset Nothing about permanent or wired 11.4 Only one fire extinguisher needs to be carried 12.4 (a) Large orange flag required for waving 12.4 (f) No flares older than 3 years are acceptable 13.1 and 13.2 An engine must be carried in an operation position and must be at least a quarter HP per foot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 5 hours ago, 44forty said: you will quickly find out your new boat is not phone friendly ! 20 years of racing multihulls prepared me well for that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 160 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 22.0 SAIL NUMBERS AND NAME 22.1 Yachts shall clearly display in legible characters at least 50mm but preferably 100mm in size, their registered name on the hull and YNZ sail number on the mainsail at least. This was pointed out to me doing boat checks for the RNI as per the 2017/2020 Safety regs Name must be on hull, sail numbers on mainsail only, the guy that pointed it out also said we had sail numbers on hull in the NoR so he added to hull (lucky he owns a printing company) So if not stated in NoR then not required on hull Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jon said: 22.0 SAIL NUMBERS AND NAME 22.1 Yachts shall clearly display in legible characters at least 50mm but preferably 100mm in size, their registered name on the hull and YNZ sail number on the mainsail at least. This was pointed out to me doing boat checks for the RNI as per the 2017/2020 Safety regs Name must be on hull, sail numbers on mainsail only, the guy that pointed it out also said we had sail numbers on hull in the NoR so he added to hull (lucky he owns a printing company) So if not stated in NoR then not required on hull Oops, true, good spotting. Trailer yacht however must have the number on the hull sides (9:03) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 160 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Is DP a trailer yacht or a keeler with lifting keel ? or do you want to play both games ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 It is registered as a keelboat so that is what I will gear it up for. Near-sister 44Forty is registered as a trailer yacht but I think is gearing up under keelboat rules as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
splat 50 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 most regional council Navigation bylaws require registered number on hull also not sure if being a member of a "recognised body" eg. YNZ exempts this requirement Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vorpal Blade 88 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 3 hours ago, splat said: most regional council Navigation bylaws require registered number on hull also not sure if being a member of a "recognised body" eg. YNZ exempts this requirement I thinks thats more to take up the jetski types that infest the place over summer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
splat 50 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, Vorpal Blade said: I thinks thats more to take up the jetski types that infest the place over summer. Maybe up north... north is not everywhere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
44forty 112 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 56 minutes ago, splat said: Maybe up north... north is not everywhere 1 hour ago, Vorpal Blade said: I thinks thats more to take up the jetski types that infest the place over summer. Think splat is referring to your boat reg number as displayed on your sails . It’s also meant to be on your hull Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 288 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, 44forty said: Think splat is referring to your boat reg number as displayed on your sails . It’s also meant to be on your hull Only if you're a trailer yacht. Keel boats don't have to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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