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Dragging/Anchor unset etiquette


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Hey KM, interesting your comments about the DOTS.My current and previous boat, same anchor make, same size, both remote anchoring.  Old boat could stick it to the ground like the proverbial on a blanket, current boat I keep wondering if someone has stolen my anchor!  Same technique on both as the same DOTS, only difference is the old one I had the chain marked with cable ties so I could count the length out, the current has a chain counter.  I keep meaning to run some chain out and measure it as I wonder if the counter is optimistic!

 

I cant remember the chain size on the old boat, but I guess it could have been bigger.

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Knot Me... maybe  You might want to talk to your lawyer about your responsibilities under NZ OSH legislation. I think you misunderstand OSH. Unfortunately OSH is such a popular whipping boy that there's lots of misinformation around.

If anyone has to consult a lawyer to understand a law that affects every single person in the country it proves without a shadow of a doubt the law is total piece of sh*t written by one. Besides if you need a law to tell you mixing children with a apex predator is a dangerous game to play, you need to be lobotomised for the good of society.

 

Dutyfree, could be chain size. Contrary to what one anchor brand selling mob say chain is good, chain helps anchors work better. Or as you appear to have noticed it could be the scope. It is very easy to put out less than you think you have so markings can be good.

 

Chain counters can also be very good. But over the years we have had 6 or so boats say 'Oui, the 50mts of chain we paid for arrived and it's only {insert a length a lot shorter}, WTF?' We pop over and with a tape measure the chain to find it is at least what they ordered and often a  mt or 3 more. On asking the question How did you measure it?' the response is 'Chain counter'. On asking 'Have you calibrated the counter?' the response is always "No, should we do that?'. Errrrr, yes. So checking your counter is calibrated could be worth sussing as well DF.

 

I have marks on my rode, the rope part. I used a simple Vivid brand felt titty but found that ran and put purple all down my topsides, lucky they were crap already, so next time I'll use the proper rope paint we now have and use when marking rde for the punters. I have one 200mm +/- mark at 10mts, 2 at 20mts, 3 at 30 etc. In between those I have a smaller singular 75mm +/- mark that denotes 1/2 way i.e. 5mts. Those marks start at the rope / chain interface, mine is a shackle but many of yours will be the splice. So I can change my chain at will and not affect the rope markings.

 

When I come into anchor I suss the sounder and say see 3mts. I then adjust that for the tide i.e if it is low tide I add 3mts. If it is already high tide I add nothing. So say I get to 5mts of water at high tide. I wait until the wind has stopped us and starting to move us backwards, or I may give the donkey a quick squirt in backward to achieve the same thing. I then chuck out 25mts of gear, 15mts being chain and I let the rope run to the 10mt mark. I hold there and wait until I feel everything stretch out and the anchor start to bite, it us usually quite obvious. I then throw out another handful of rope to allow for the distance between my cleat and the water, on some boats that can be quite a few meters so if they are in shallow water that can make quite a difference. I'll then head for a cold beer or for some who like to power set they could then gently apply some backward power, not hard or fast, give the anchor a chance to get in before going hard. It would be unusual for me to power set, once the anchor has started to bite they will usually work their way in and if you haven't short scoped it would be unusual for them to come out.

 

You will note that the current boat uses a rope to chain rode so I work on 5:1 scope, I don't short scope as there is 99% of the time no decent reason to short cut like that. Scope is important, too short and all you are doing is working against your anchor, they aren't designed to be pulled upwards until you are retrieving them.

 

If you have all chain deploy 3 times, plus a handful, the meters sowing on your depth sounder as a minimum. If rope and chain combo use 5 times plus a handful. If the weather is 1kt gusting 2 and no tidal flow then you can shorten a bit. As the weather turns to sh*t deploy more, looking behind you for hard things first. The worse the weather gets the more rode you deploy. In total crap get to 10:1 scope, that will have your anchor working as best as it's going to and the rode between that and the boat working its beast to help the anchor.

 

So if you have a counter, calibrate the bloody thing. If not rope paint is cheap and it takes only 2 stubbies to mark your rode, it's simple as. That will allow you to know exactly what you have out, I bet most would fine they have been deploying less metres than they think.

 

Scope, get that right and your anchor will work better with less pressure, no way that is a bad thing. Also remember scope is good, more is always better than less.

 

DF, give me a tinkle if it persists and you can shout me a beer while we do a eyes on and chat. 

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Thanks KM, I have been meaning to run some chain out in the marina and physically measure it to compare with the counter. Might do that tonight.  I pretty much us the same technique you describe and the same scope, which really makes me think the counter could be out.  Already bought a new anchor from you :) so chain counting is the last step :) 

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Geez KM ...is that how you Akldr's anchor ? Really. On the cruise this year saw boats (launches) doing the old down tide , downwind and let the whole lot go thing. This seemed to have lost favour over recent years but now back in vogue ? It's great entertainment and sometimes it works ! Must be good for business when it doesn't

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I have been meaning to put a small float on say 6 mts of line to the head of my anchor, would be handy to know where the anchor is . check scope and swinging circle and may keep other boats from anchoring too close, multis often don,t lie the same way as monos . As well as being able to retrieve a snagged anchor.

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An anchor marker might seem a good idea, but you're just going to piss people off.

 

Boats can anchor much closer than full scope circles would suggest without hitting. We've frequently had to wait for boats to swing out of the way when raising anchor, but never had any feeling that the boats would swing into contact.

 

In the commodore's lounge at the squadron there's a photo of mansion house bay in the early 1900's, taken from the shore, with boats very close together. In discussing it with some more weathered folk their impression is that the wind tends to channel between boats at anchor and keep them apart.

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I hear what you're saying Bogan and can see that a small light boat might get away with a shorter scope. However the potential is definitely there for bumps and fouling of my marker if they anchor inside my scope. If they foul my marker they are that much closer to fouling my anchor. It happened to me a couple of years ago when someone anchored too close to me. Great big fat stupid launch it was.

 

BTW how many people use an anchor alarm on the GPS?

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BTW how many people use an anchor alarm on the GPS?

Well I would have: But still working out how to set it :(

However going to be using opencpn on the boat this weekend and I do know how use that one.

So yes we do.

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As an indication of the holding ability of a heavy chain on a muddy bottom.... we had 20kts+ come thru one night while anchored at Rotoroa over new years.  We were happily sitting on around 6:1 scope and I slept like a log and so did the kids (woohoo!). In the morning I woke up to find that there had been a 90 degree wind shift and a launch was sitting about 25-30m off the bow i.e roughly where I expected our anchor to be. When we were ready to lift the anchor I got a fender out cos I thought we might get close to the launch  but half way there the anchor chain did a 90 degree turn and headed off in line with the direction we were originally sitting at ie. the 20kt blow hadn't even straightened out the anchor chain!

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Does anyone else use the "drop your anchor between two boats transoms" rule?

 

It's what I was taught many moons ago and then, no matter how crowded the bay, no boat should be over your anchor when retrieving it (not you over theirs). Probably even in the situation just described by pacifier. In which case nobody has any idea where another boat's anchor is.

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As an indication of the holding ability of a heavy chain on a muddy bottom..

 

Yep, the chain and the Anchor work as one. For every doubling of the length of chain you lay out, the holding power increases by a factor of 4. It's one issue to consider if you are thinking going to Rope/Chain rode. While that is good for smaller boats that need to save on weight, those that are going to anchor over night regularly for extended periods, it maybe more important to factor in that greater holding power by having all chain.

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Rocna seems to be somewhat a victim of their own success.  I might not know much but I have done a little bit of boating over the last 30 years  with various 'old generation anchors' and know their limitations. I also know that when I changed to rocna about 8  years ago , one made in NZ, it  fixed the fault of the old cqr/ manson plow type which was that they need to be set properly and you often need a bit of extra room to do that. 

 The rocna , like most of the new gen anchors sets much faster and easier, and across many different bottom types. My anchor is also at the lower end of the weight threshold in the boat size  guidelines, but it does fit with that old maxim of a pound a foot.

 

The only time it hasn't held for me is when there's an issue not of its making. A papa bed say, or a scallop shell on the tip, or a large plastic bag buried in the mud in Kairara bay one year.( for example)

 Apart from that ( and actually including that ... the bag) its held us in many summer gales and generally been a great and reliable performer in some quite marginal conditions. In fact its totally satisfactory and I wouldn't change it.

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Does anyone else use the "drop your anchor between two boats transoms" rule?

 

It's what I was taught many moons ago and then, no matter how crowded the bay, no boat should be over your anchor when retrieving it (not you over theirs). Probably even in the situation just described by pacifier. In which case nobody has any idea where another boat's anchor is.

 

 

Pretty much what I learned through watching my father. But in this case your anchor can easily end up under one or other of the boats depending how they are laying at the time you anchor.

 

And more commonly the issue arises as more boats come in and start filling the gaps.

 

But I've never personally seen or experienced two boats coming together at anchor - except when one of them is dragging.

 

I jumped aboard a dragging launch to hold it off on one occasion, and had a launch drag back and collide with my anchor rode on another.

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ironically boats are more likely to come into contact with each other when there is no wind, and during slack water if there has been a tide running. I have seen several stern too stern meetings, generally with one boat on chain and the other on rope and chain. Though occasionally bot on chain.

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ironically boats are more likely to come into contact with each other when there is no wind, and during slack water if there has been a tide running. I have seen several stern too stern meetings, generally with one boat on chain and the other on rope and chain. Though occasionally bot on chain.

You are absolutely correct.. I have had one of those in a dead calm situation at 4 in the morning..

 

He was on chain and I was on chain/rope so it was probably us drifting..

It was amazing the amount of noise and vibration it caused..

 

Fortunately for me we hit him bow into his broadside... However when they anchored earlier that evening I did mention to them there didn't seem to be enough clearance between us.. They were happy so I went to bed..consequently it wasn't me pulling up the anchor at 4 in the morning :)

 

The real stupid thing with this one is that there was only the two of us in a whole great big bay!!!

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I've seen two boats pull directly towards each other, and once I've been one of them. Weird, but it does happen occasionally.

I'm still not comfortable with how close Auckland boaties are happy to anchor to each other ( and to me!)...

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