DrWatson 382 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 As I'm browsing around looking at this n that, I find a number of boats from the early 80s available. Seem to be pretty well sorted and looked after, but just wondering in general about IOR and the infamous death roll attributes? Boats like this https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1353969580.htm which look pretty good, but are there hidden handling characteristics to be aware of? Also a Whiting ( from the same era. Were these built to the IOR rules (1 tonnner I guess?). Good looking boat but I'm unsure of the characteristics when considering shorthanded offshore... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Had a Cav36 tonner for a while and pushed it pretty hard, with modern kites the death roll was all but gone. Something to be aware of is downwind with a kite the just don't go very fast and load up until the kite goes pop. Really heavy and massive loads but built like a tank and could take anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 109 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 If you're cruising you're unlikely to drive the boat hard enough to go squirrely. Or set a symmetric for that matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,717 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I figured out long ago not too tell anyone what to sail. But racing those things in the late 70s and early 80s put me off them forever Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armchairadmiral 411 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yes. IMHO those Rule boats were mainly a designers planned obsolescence scheme guaranteeing them new commissions year after year until the owners woke up. Bruce Farr was the alarm clock and his boats were a joy to sail after the horror shows of the hole diggers. You ain't seen nothing compared to a yacht with a ribbon main on a tall mast ,masthead kite,short pole,bustle aft, getting immersed in the hole it created for itself just prior to wiping out. Spectacular,expensive and character forming. The establishment went to extreme lengths to outlaw light boats that planed ,and ,shock ,horror, open transoms crew were going to fall out of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 109 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I don't like the unfair and bump hull boats but that doesn't look like a bustle boat to me, and quite a nice rig .Without a hauled hull shot its difficult to pick but 1980 should be past most of the hull distortions by rule I would have thought ( ?) Farr 1104's and Farr 38's all had helm issues which were fixed by new rudders, I wouldn't discount that red boat at all. C flex is a pretty tough construction method and that interior looks very cruisy. Cockpit safety is pretty important 500 miles out to sea especially with only 2 or 3 aboard. People do fall out of open transoms, they slip off decks... a cockpit is where you should be low and secured in and able to take whatever is thrown at you. Hell, just look at the current crop of RTW boats with cockpits basically at deck level and super low cockpit coamings , nowhere to brace against in a wide beam boat. If those guys are losing race boat crew at the rate they are ,imagine how it is for mum and dad. If you're cruising and cruising with kids especially I wouldn't feel happy at all without a door or washboard(s). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El Toro 110 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I know a different type of boat, but one from the 80s still, but Pork Chop used to scare the sh*t out of me in anything over 18 knots with a kite...and even resulted in a new shiny mast one coastal next to Rangi Light. I jumped on Positive Touch one race and was on mast/piano, at once stage I was hugging the mast for dear life, to which the crew laughed and asked me what the f I was doing. I fully thought we were going in to the death roll that I was used to. I think it may have scarred me for life now I think about it. New keel helped, moved it back a whopping .74m but did not fix altogther. As did raising the forestay from 3/4 to 15/16. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 147 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Used to race on a similar IOR 2 boat, great for shorthanded, as they weren't too tender and had plenty of weight in the keel. The beam on them provides decent volume downstairs for curising and they are generally built llike the proverbial outhouse. Never really got the death roll going, but I think the boat had ahd a bit of a hull refair to give a bit more of a flat section aft Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farina 2 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I sailed on this boat in wellington back in 1987. Its not an IOR death roller. Its quite wide in the stern and could get up and plane in the right conditions. I believe it has the wellington young 11 bulb keel that was fitted to flying boat, arbitrage etc. The main feature of the old IOR death rollers was a very pinched stern, tall thin mainsail, and masthead rig. The moment you wound the pole back things got really hairy really quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 109 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Thats good info! Even the early IOR and late RORC boats with counters or fine sterns still make nice cruisers because you just dont drive them past hull speed to make them wipe out. In some ways theyre better because as you load up you get more WL and the bow is generally more v sectioned so unlikely to pound like the later flatter bow sections do. You put 2 two tons of cruising gear on a fast light boat and you get a displacement speed boat anyway,planing goes out the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bazzathemammoth 38 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I know a different type of boat, but one from the 80s still, but Pork Chop used to scare the sh*t out of me in anything over 18 knots with a kite...and even resulted in a new shiny mast one coastal next to Rangi Light. I jumped on Positive Touch one race and was on mast/piano, at once stage I was hugging the mast for dear life, to which the crew laughed and asked me what the f I was doing. I fully thought we were going in to the death roll that I was used to. I think it may have scarred me for life now I think about it. New keel helped, moved it back a whopping .74m but did not fix altogther. As did raising the forestay from 3/4 to 15/16. Good to know its not just us. We did our first Chinese gybe ever few months ago. Had the masthead kite up in what turned into gusting 25 by pilot bay. A particularly big gust coincided with a moments inattention on the helmsmans part and next thing we were on our side. Not the most pleasant experience but we have done 14 knots in flat water with a kite up which was pretty awesome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 414 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 As I'm browsing around looking at this n that, I find a number of boats from the early 80s available. Seem to be pretty well sorted and looked after, but just wondering in general about IOR and the infamous death roll attributes? Boats like this https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1353969580.htm which look pretty good, but are there hidden handling characteristics to be aware of? Also a Whiting ( from the same era. Were these built to the IOR rules (1 tonnner I guess?). Good looking boat but I'm unsure of the characteristics when considering shorthanded offshore... Yup , sure looks like a tidy unit and it has cockpit lockers which are a pretty rare event on a lot of yachts. It's not a fatty as is from a different era than this one that I spied at Whangaparaoa recently. https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1149232068.htm?rsqid=0123970a28904e19bbbd0e732016bc66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dambo 44 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The IOR Rule = do not pass an IOR boat to Windward. I loved racing on the Whiting - really f**king entertaining Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mcp 34 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Can someone please explain or give the royal brief, on the death rolling, IOR boat thing, etc.... basic issues and cause, etc? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 414 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Pinched ends with tubby tummy makes for very rolly downhill. Bit like my dad bod. Rigs tended to be tallish with short booms and massive headsails so the death roll was like some sort of evil kinetic energy unleashed. There is a memorable passage in a local book vividly describing Chris Bouzaid and Co throttling the life out of Waianiwa running downhill in a Sydney to Hobart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Also didn't help that the top speed was pretty limited so that fastest way to the bottom mark was to soak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard2249 5 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Can someone please explain or give the royal brief, on the death rolling, IOR boat thing, etc.... basic issues and cause, etc? Thanks in advance. Quick summary here 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chariot 244 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Pinched ends with tubby tummy makes for very rolly downhill. Bit like my dad bod. Rigs tended to be tallish with short booms and massive headsails so the death roll was like some sort of evil kinetic energy unleashed. There is a memorable passage in a local book vividly describing Chris Bouzaid and Co throttling the life out of Waianiwa running downhill in a Sydney to Hobart. But they were good at it because they won on handicap. Think the boat may have been Rainbow 2. Go Rainbow go is a good read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 682 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 with 1/4 ton ior type boats ,yes they death roll but easy fix,instead of kite sheets well aft(which we had)a old timer said move sheets 1/2 way between cockpit and shrouds,pulls kite down tight and for real excitement set a blooper, still bloody rolled.Amazing how far you can push them though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 382 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Quick summary here Yeah that two spinnaker thing doesn't look like disaster waiting to happen at all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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