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Looking for recommendations for a 30 - 40 ft liveaboard keeler


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4 hours ago, Psyche said:

If you are in a position to borrow say 100,000 even at 10%  if you buy well, at the end of a year you're ahead because you are not spending like you would ashore. Assume depreciation is minimal because you are at residual value you'll sell for not much less.

 

"Hi, yes is that AussieBank Corp?  Cool great, yeah, you know me I've been with you since I was about 8 and you offered those CashIsJustCrackForKids accounts - yeah, the no fees, no interest ones....  Anyway, because you guys have been handing over money for houses like you are Santa Claus in the Cadbury factory I can't afford a house, so I want to live on a yacht - can ya gimme, say a 100k? 

Hello,  hellllllloooooo...  are you there?"



 

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2 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

"Hi, yes is that AussieBank Corp?  Cool great, yeah, you know me I've been with you since I was about 8 and you offered those CashIsJustCrackForKids accounts - yeah, the no fees, no interest ones....  Anyway, because you guys have been handing over money for houses like you are Santa Claus in the Cadbury factory I can't afford a house, so I want to live on a yacht - can ya gimme, say a 100k? 

Hello,  hellllllloooooo...  are you there?"



 

I didn't mention the kidney as security! I see that Westpac is offering personal loans at 14%, still the general idea is that if you have cashflow and you can get a reasonable loan rate you are better off buying and enjoying now if indeed its just for a short time. 

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1 hour ago, aardvarkash10 said:

"Hi, yes is that AussieBank Corp?  Cool great, yeah, you know me I've been with you since I was about 8 and you offered those CashIsJustCrackForKids accounts - yeah, the no fees, no interest ones....  Anyway, because you guys have been handing over money for houses like you are Santa Claus in the Cadbury factory I can't afford a house, so I want to live on a yacht - can ya gimme, say a 100k? 

Hello,  hellllllloooooo...  are you there?"



 

Comedy value aside, I'd think that boat loans are extremely common.

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34 minutes ago, khayyam said:

Comedy value aside, I'd think that boat loans are extremely common.

If you have substantial capital backing, yes.  Many are effectively mortgage extensions.  The rest are at eye-watering interest rates.

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"Vin" what is your definition of liveaboard?? a place to live in a river on piles while still attending full time work or liveaboard and go cruising without the worry of work??

If its just afloating apartment then no real attention required to sails,rig,etc but if cruising as a lifestyle with a budget of $20k  limited choices really h28 d28 , they would have adequate sails and motor and a resonable motor,but sorry if this is going to upset you but really need $40k + with all the work done is probably where you are looking at,no or limited income why spend it on motor rebuilds/sails etc when you can buy a going concern,move on and be happy knowing for the next 4/5 yrs antifoul ,motor service

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40 minutes ago, harrytom said:

"Vin" what is your definition of liveaboard?? a place to live in a river on piles while still attending full time work or liveaboard and go cruising without the worry of work??

If its just afloating apartment then no real attention required to sails,rig,etc but if cruising as a lifestyle with a budget of $20k  limited choices really h28 d28 , they would have adequate sails and motor and a resonable motor,but sorry if this is going to upset you but really need $40k + with all the work done is probably where you are looking at,no or limited income why spend it on motor rebuilds/sails etc when you can buy a going concern,move on and be happy knowing for the next 4/5 yrs antifoul ,motor service

This is what I am trying to figure out at the moment (hence asking wiser more experienced folks such as yourself). 
My definition of a liveabord is full-time cruising spending 90% of time at anchor in beautiful bays while working remotely from a laptop 4 days a week (4g reception around coastal NZ seems good enough to allow this). Of course we'd need to have a good solar power solution for 2 x laptops + fridge, and enough water storage to support a few weeks away from a marina.

Which in turn means that I need to look at slightly larger boats with slightly larger tanks and more space for solar panels and batteries. I'm beginning to think that 28 - 30 ft might be a little small, but as we go up in size the price goes up very rapidly. I think that I could find a nice sound H28 for $10k - $20k but a nice sound Stewart 34 (for example) is going to run $30k - $40k.

It's a bit of a conundrum. Go small and go now, or wait until we can get something bigger, more comfortable, that requires less maintenance, and spend the next year or two wishing we were on the water.

I was trying to hit the sweet spot in the middle with the likes of an H28, but I'm questioning myself now (which is a good thing, and the reason for making this thread!)

 

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8 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

Disclosure:  We own a 10m Spencer, and Mrs Aardvark's family built three of them in the 1960s going from 25 foot to 45 foot in the process.  The later yachts cruised and raced locally and internationally.

ANY yacht in your budget will need maintenance, and the Ply construction of a Spencer is now different.  Upside is that ply is easy to repair (comparatively), and the construction methods were simple and repeated across the range of designs John drew/built - this means a surveyor has no difficulty in identifying any potential problems.

That's interesting info. The price on that Spencer does look a little too good to be true for the amount of boat, which makes me wonder why it's so cheap. I've read manty horror stories of glass over ply construction, but have also read that when constructed with care and maintained to prevent water ingress they're as strong as anything else.
The size and layout look ideal for liveabord coastal cruising, not too big to manage with just the two of us, and not too small to feel cramped all the time.

7 hours ago, khayyam said:

What does a survey cost these days? Wondering if it's worth doing on a 10k boat. 

Whenever I see an ad for a cheap H28 that has 'issues' this is what goes through my mind.

7 hours ago, Psyche said:

It also depends on your age- sub 25 you can live in a Hartley 16 with your girlfriend and dog but post 60 you're probably going to need a bit more room. The best advice I can offer is look at the numbers.

2 Bedroom unit in AK is about 500 per week (minimum) call that in round figures 25k per year dead money- poof gone! Everyone needs to pay rent or mortgage so its all about how to spend it.

If you are in a position to borrow say 100,000 even at 10%  if you buy well, at the end of a year you're ahead because you are not spending like you would ashore. Assume depreciation is minimal because you are at residual value you'll sell for not much less.

Upside is that you're on a larger boat that gives a lot more livability and range for the cost of a flat in the big smoke. I know thats a bit optimistic but if I were to look at boats I would be buying the best example i could afford to finance. You do not want to work on boats if you can help it, its so much better to get one that someone else has spent the time and money on. 

We're both mid 30s and have lived in small spaces together before (single room apartments in east Asia) so we're pretty good at putting up with each other. But in saying that, more space is always a good thing, especially when we're both working during the day. I've been seeing a bit of advice that stretching the budget as much as possible is a very good idea, so I'll definitely take that into consideration and see if we can manage to spend a little more to get something better maintained and larger.

7 hours ago, chariot said:

Cheap boats don't usually end up being cheap boats. Agree, buy the best you can afford.

Noted.

4 hours ago, waikiore said:

She is its scirocco , just check her out end on, my partner sailed on her as a kid, and a friend bought her 20 years ago and sold the mooring for twice as much as the whole deal, but that was prior to a professional boatbuilder completely rebuilding her and expanding and modernising her.

I've asked a question on the trademe auction about this, but do you now what was involved in her rebuild and modernisation? Extensive hull work? Any relgassing of cabin top etc?

3 hours ago, Vivaldi said:

Carpenter 29 is another boat in that range worth looking at. Great boats and roomy for their length

Will take a look, thanks.

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A hard top or good Bimini with clears to close in the cockpit would be a requirement for me for live aboard, especially in the winter,  most idyllic bays aren’t so good in the winter when it’s gusting 30knts plus

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7 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Bigger and more comfortable does not mean less maintenance. Quite the opposite!

Hah! Now I am back to looking at H28s and Cav 32s.


But in all seriousness, I think it might be time to go and have a chat to the bank to see about upping the $ range to open up some more options.

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59 minutes ago, Vin said:

Hah! Now I am back to looking at H28s and Cav 32s.


But in all seriousness, I think it might be time to go and have a chat to the bank to see about upping the $ range to open up some more options.

Good boats in their day but It is VERY easy to spend 20k on boat maintenance and wonder where it went. If you could stretch to something like this Matangi, it would be an excellent liveaboard

1645378462.jpg

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3427370570?bof=7vQiLzKA

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Before parting with any $$$ see whether or not .you can get insurance. The way insurance companies operate with old vessels now. Most insist on survey, so a friendly boatbuilder comes in to play, where you are mooring or marina/piles or just on anchor. They all have varying rates. Some crippling and some silly exclusion clauses.

After having several yachts of varying sizes, sub 20k we are slowly saving for the over 40k market to eliminate those replacement issues.

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2 hours ago, harrytom said:

Before parting with any $$$ see whether or not .you can get insurance. The way insurance companies operate with old vessels now. Most insist on survey, so a friendly boatbuilder comes in to play, where you are mooring or marina/piles or just on anchor. They all have varying rates. Some crippling and some silly exclusion clauses.

After having several yachts of varying sizes, sub 20k we are slowly saving for the over 40k market to eliminate those replacement issues.

That's a very good point , easy to buy a cheap boat only to find it converts to a steep premium, sometimes with nasty exclusions. 

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A Bicycle mechanic once said to me a bike is a frame and a collection of parts, the quality and condition of the parts defines the bike and the riding experience.  Its an oversimplification of course but it also applies to boats. ie if the mast, rigging, sails, electrics  and engine are worn out then all you have is a floating liability that will endlessly frustrate you and your partner, probably wont do much for the relationship either. Other commentators here are right, borrow the money if you have to and get a vessel that suits your needs,if you can't afford the loan then you might have to reconsider if you can afford the venture ? A rough rule of thumb that I have heard of is that opex for a boat is about 10% of capex , e.g a 30K boat will cost about 3K per season to maintain. I have a Carpenter 29 (not for sale) I worked it out once and it seemed about right , its on a swing mooring but that figure would go up if you are thinking of a marina. If you are not particularly handy or dont have the time  I would recommend a vessel with a GRP hull and decks. My recent experience is that you won't get insurance without a survey that is less than 2 yrs old and you will likely pay 1200 to 2K for a that not including haul out fees for the hull inspection. This will usually  exclude the rigging and certainly the engine for which you will need a other experts. In my policy they wont cover a demasting if the rigging is more than 10 years old, an engine survey is a must IMHO. 

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That Spencer is a great boat if the boat builder is as Sneaky as I think.  I recall he had one a number of years ago. Possibly stayed in the family - based on the vendor name?

Many years ago I lived on a Cav 32. Fine for 1. Bunks would be cosy for 2.

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10 hours ago, Psyche said:

Good boats in their day but It is VERY easy to spend 20k on boat maintenance and wonder where it went. If you could stretch to something like this Matangi, it would be an excellent liveaboard

1645378462.jpg

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3427370570?bof=7vQiLzKA

This is like a mini apartment. I showed my wife and she loved it.
Looks well kept for a steel hull. Where's all the rust!?

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6 hours ago, harrytom said:

Before parting with any $$$ see whether or not .you can get insurance. The way insurance companies operate with old vessels now. Most insist on survey, so a friendly boatbuilder comes in to play, where you are mooring or marina/piles or just on anchor. They all have varying rates. Some crippling and some silly exclusion clauses.

After having several yachts of varying sizes, sub 20k we are slowly saving for the over 40k market to eliminate those replacement issues.

Another thing to consider -_- I'll ring around when I have something under serious consideration.

3 hours ago, Frank said:

A Bicycle mechanic once said to me a bike is a frame and a collection of parts, the quality and condition of the parts defines the bike and the riding experience.  Its an oversimplification of course but it also applies to boats. ie if the mast, rigging, sails, electrics  and engine are worn out then all you have is a floating liability that will endlessly frustrate you and your partner, probably wont do much for the relationship either. Other commentators here are right, borrow the money if you have to and get a vessel that suits your needs,if you can't afford the loan then you might have to reconsider if you can afford the venture ? A rough rule of thumb that I have heard of is that opex for a boat is about 10% of capex , e.g a 30K boat will cost about 3K per season to maintain. I have a Carpenter 29 (not for sale) I worked it out once and it seemed about right , its on a swing mooring but that figure would go up if you are thinking of a marina. If you are not particularly handy or dont have the time  I would recommend a vessel with a GRP hull and decks. My recent experience is that you won't get insurance without a survey that is less than 2 yrs old and you will likely pay 1200 to 2K for a that not including haul out fees for the hull inspection. This will usually  exclude the rigging and certainly the engine for which you will need a other experts. In my policy they wont cover a demasting if the rigging is more than 10 years old, an engine survey is a must IMHO. 

Jesus, 1200 - 2k for a survey?! I knew we'd had a bad year for inflation but that is crazy! Makes buying something that's had a recent survey a bit more appealing.

 

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Alloy and steel hulls (in good condition) are far superior to anything else for long term live aboard use and possible abuse. All other stuff, motor, rig, rigging, etc. etc. are common to any yacht. A survey is recommended as to hull condition, thickness, etc. A lot of Bruce Roberts steel designs (as an example) were built in the 1970 / 80's are still around and many are in good condition.

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