Okahu Hard Stand meeting

[Okahu Sailor 16]

12 minutes ago, Timberwolfy said:

Closing boatyards in the name of supporting people having access to the water is cutting off your nose to spite your face too, don't you think?

Ports of Auckland are struggling to hold onto their spot and they return millions to rate payers. Do you honestly believe a subsidised hardstand on prime, public, waterfront park land is going to last 5, 10, 15 years into future? Encourage the Council to allow club yards to expand their footprints, fundraise for better systems at these club yards, petition against zoning changes that allow property developers to build around marinas, and support the clubs that are doing what they need to survive.

 

[Black Panther 1,588]

Wouldn't it be fun if all the multihulls went to one of the Auckland beaches one day and dried out. Then started scrubbing/sanding/painting. 

[Psyche 633]

1 hour ago, Okahu Sailor said:

I didn't mean to imply the RAYC would - or ever had - control of The Landing space outside of their building footprint. My point is that as a park with a focus on maritime events the space is available to anyone including the RAYC, Marine Sports Centre, Triathlon New Zealand, Barry goes boating - anyone - can then apply for event permits to use the space. To think that as Auckland's population density increases and overall population expands that one relatively small user group can command exclusive use of prime, public, waterfront land - year round - to maintain private vessels is completely unrealistic. If the hardstand survives this year, another few years down the track there will be another attempt from local residents or the wider community to get rid of it and maybe next time it won't be a maritime park it will be a wellness centre, then we are all f*cked. 

You may pine for the good old days but the old days are long gone. One look at the RNZYS finances proves that old model of exclusivity is no longer sustainable and they are also going to need to make fundamental changes to the way they operate if they want to have a future. 

For the RAYC that is a model that revolves around diversified income streams (restaurant and event centre) and expanding their user base to other marine sports (through the Marine Sports Centre). Boycotting a yacht club is cutting of your nose to spite your face, we should all be supporting all of Auckland's yacht clubs and the changes they need to take to ensure they not only survive but thrive in the future. 

Fine but wheres the haulout going? Not everyone can afford to chuck the keys to their man to get the boat antifouled at Orams. This is the death of keelboating by a thousand cuts, if RAYC wants to be all things to all people i.e a dinghy/knife and fork club why should the keelboat community have to contribute to that?

[Clipper 343]

There is no need for yacht clubs if there are no yachts left.

if you cant haul yachts, there will be none.

Okahu sailor, to me your plan seems aimed at killing boating in auckland.

I hope RAYC is the first club to die.

[Timberwolfy 62]

Okahu sailor, you encourage me to "encourage the Council to allow club yards to expand their footprints," when I am encouraging the council to simply maintain (or honestly, even reduce somewhat, but not remove) their yard's footprint. You sound like a NIMBY, to which I can only say: "okay, boomer." Pull your head in mate.

[CarpeDiem 430]

Isn't RAYC just a tennant in the building? There are a number of marine clubs in the building right that all use the area?  The Akarana Eatery appears to be a separate entity again. 

The building is owned by the Akarana Marine Sports Trust.  The way I see, and from what's spread all over their website, they are the ones pushing the agenda and the RAYC is caught up in. 

Are RAYC just in a rock and a hard place? They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.  If they go against the trust then would they find themselves evicted? 

Is RAYC being forced to reinvent themselves due to a demand placed on them by the trust that sets all the rules they have to follow? 

Is the trust is run by people with commercial interests that will benefit from the proposed changes?  Or is the club running the trust? 

I can't see any commonality between the rayc club flag officiers and the sports trust trustees.  They seem to be completely different people. There's some rayc life members listed who are or were trustees... 

Is the RAYC just guilty by association? 

 

[Ed 143]

From the RAYC annual report...

" RAYC has a close association with the Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust ("AMSCT"), a controlled entity of RAYC by virtue that RAYC appoints 4 of the 7 trustees of AMSCT.  "

and

"The Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust ('AMSCT') is a related party as the General Committee members of the Club are also Trustees of AMSCT and the Club appoints the majority of the AMSCT Trustees"

 

[CarpeDiem 430]

9 hours ago, Ed said:

From the RAYC annual report...

" RAYC has a close association with the Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust ("AMSCT"), a controlled entity of RAYC by virtue that RAYC appoints 4 of the 7 trustees of AMSCT.  "

and

"The Akarana Marine Sports Charitable Trust ('AMSCT') is a related party as the General Committee members of the Club are also Trustees of AMSCT and the Club appoints the majority of the AMSCT Trustees"

 

So fundamentally one in the same.  Separated by a thin veil of see through fabric. Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up for me. 

[K4309 260]

On 18/09/2023 at 8:31 PM, Okahu Sailor said:

In an era of declining participation and increasing compliance costs many sports clubs around the country face an uncertain future. Yacht clubs are no exception. So should they keep doing what they’ve always done with some tweaks around the edges and slip further into decline? Or make some fundamental changes to ensure a sustainable future?

Royal Akarana Yacht Club has chosen the latter. Giving up their exclusive use of their site in Okahu Bay and opening up to a variety of marine user groups along with some very generous donations the Marine Sports Centre has taken shape. Visit the site on a sunny weekend and you will immediately see its popularity. Hundreds of people using the site for many different activities, mostly but not exclusively marine related. Dinghy sailing and paddle sports being the most popular. But they have a long way to go to ensure long term survival. They have plans for national and international events which will drive participation and encourage growth in dinghy sailing (which will in turn filter sailors through to keelboats), growing their very successful learn to sail programs as well as continuing their former core activities such as offshore keelboat racing. And now that will be along side other marine sports such as Waka Ama, rather then competing against them for resources. This is in part funded by the restaurant and event centre on site, a very necessary part of ensuring a sustainable operation. 

So then there is The Landing hardstand. An anomaly in Auckland it was neither club owned or fully commercial. Run by a private contractor but funded by Auckland Council for the exclusive use of a fortunate few, in a location that is no longer and probably never was particularly well suited to its use. When the consultation was opened on the hardstand’s future the Marine Sports Centre and RAYC recognised the sites huge potential as a hub for marine events, as well as turning The Landing into a space that people want to visit to further encourage growth. And yes additional storage for club boats in an age where people don’t have the means to own their own boats, or space to store them at home. (As a side note there about 60 club boats in the Marine Sports Centre and ASC boat sheds, another 30 club dinghies within the Centre footprint, 60 surfskis in two 40’ containers in the carpark, several Waka on the grass in front, 20 or so more Waka elsewhere on the site and another 40 odd members boats either on the ramp or in the back carpark. At least 200 boats in total which are all regularly used - there is demand for more and a long waiting list for very limited member storage. Restaurant storage comprises a 3m x 3m cage in the shed.)

Instead of suggesting boycotts and implying conspiracies which will only drive the sailing community apart, I would invite you to visit the site on a sunny weekend and imagine just how good it could be as a hub for marine sporting events. And maybe even recognise that increased maintenance costs for a small group of boat owners could actually be for the greater good of the sport and long term survival of one of New Zealand’s oldest yacht clubs.

Well this thread isn't going how you wanted, @Okahu Sailor. 8 negative votes already and unanimous opposition to your position . Looks like you should have got that Communications Consultant after all...

I trust this demonstrates to you the depth of feeling around how RAYC is shafting the wider boating community. I hope you take this onboard and reflect on the damage you are doing. Perhaps even a positive outcome, change RAYC's position on expansion at the expense of others?

[Okahu Sailor 16]

I read all 10 pages prior to posting so I was definitely aware of the sentiment on here. My reason for posting was not an attempt to gain positive votes from forum users but to present the other side of the argument - That there are many, many people out there, myself included, that have genuine reasons for supporting the closure of this hardstand, which do not involve conspiracy or collusion. While I am aware that some people will be negatively impacted, I believe that on balance the boating community as a whole will see a large benefit in the longer term. I believe there is plenty of hardstand capacity in Auckland for actual (not theoretical) demand, illustrated by the fact that this particular hardstand was subsidised and still under utilised. While well suited to some it was poorly suited for most, and will better serve the boating and wider community as a park with a focus on marine events. I know that hardstands are important and hope that as or when demand increases in the future commercial and club yards are allowed to increase their footprints and operations without encountering unneeded bureaucracy and red tape, and I really hope that owners of niche trimarans can find an adequate solution. 

Finally I hope that some of you appreciate hearing from the other side and for the rest I will leave you to your echo chamber. 

[K4309 260]

30 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

I read all 10 pages prior to posting so I was definitely aware of the sentiment on here. My reason for posting was not an attempt to gain positive votes from forum users but to present the other side of the argument - That there are many, many people out there, myself included, that have genuine reasons for supporting the closure of this hardstand, which do not involve conspiracy or collusion. While I am aware that some people will be negatively impacted, I believe that on balance the boating community as a whole will see a large benefit in the longer term. I believe there is plenty of hardstand capacity in Auckland for actual (not theoretical) demand, illustrated by the fact that this particular hardstand was subsidised and still under utilised. While well suited to some it was poorly suited for most, and will better serve the boating and wider community as a park with a focus on marine events. I know that hardstands are important and hope that as or when demand increases in the future commercial and club yards are allowed to increase their footprints and operations without encountering unneeded bureaucracy and red tape, and I really hope that owners of niche trimarans can find an adequate solution. 

Finally I hope that some of you appreciate hearing from the other side and for the rest I will leave you to your echo chamber. 

All you are really saying is "I don't use it, therefore it should be closed and used for something that I think is better".

I don't use golf courses, rugby fields, cricket pitches, skate parks, basketball courts or many other community facilities the Council provides.

That doesn't give me the right to run around getting them all closed down, or used for something I think is a far more productive use of the land. Its about basic respect for the current users.

As for your 'conspiracy theory' fall back position. It is a basic fact that you closed the hardstand, got all the boats off it and booted the operator, then turned around and told the High Court Judge "a decision on its future hasn't been made". Some people just lack integrity.

Oh, and you still wont answer the question about your major donor and his financial interest in the Tamaki Marine Park. Why not? Scared your 'conspiracy theory' refrain might be shown to be a fact?

[Dagwood 57]

I appreciate hearing from the other side and credit to you for standing up - few others have.

4 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

I know that hardstands are important and hope that as or when demand increases in the future commercial and club yards are allowed to increase their footprints and operations without encountering unneeded bureaucracy and red tape

However that's got to be the best line I've read on here for years... Not going to happen and everyone knows it and that's why the demise of this facility has upset so many.

You don't need much infrastructure to rig a fleet of Optis in a safe and environmentally manner but the same can't be said for the annual maintenance of a 30' keeler...

[Timberwolfy 62]

Calling the content of this thread an "echo chamber" is a bit silly when every Auckland sailor I know (except those on the RAYC committee), every Auckland club (except, again, RAYC), and YNZ, are all saying this closure is a poor decision and they do not support it... Add in how you keep claiming the link between Howard Spencer's openly declared interests in the Trust and Tamaki Marine Park are a conspiracy theory, and aye yi yi, it makes me feel like I'm back in America with Trumpian politics: call those with the majority opinion conspiracy theorists in an echo chamber and use your money to take take take.

I mean, seriously, the national governing body of the sport you claim to need this space for is telling you you're doing it wrong... If that doesn't make you think, nothing will.

[Okahu Sailor 16]

15 minutes ago, K4309 said:

All you are really saying is "I don't use it, therefore it should be closed and used for something that I think is better".

I don't use golf courses, rugby fields, cricket pitches, skate parks, basketball courts or many other community facilities the Council provides.

That doesn't give me the right to run around getting them all closed down, or used for something I think is a far more productive use of the land. Its about basic respect for the current users.

As for your 'conspiracy theory' fall back position. It is a basic fact that you closed the hardstand, got all the boats off it and booted the operator, then turned around and told the High Court Judge "a decision on its future hasn't been made". Some people just lack integrity.

Oh, and you still wont answer the question about your major donor and his financial interest in the Tamaki Marine Park. Why not? Scared your 'conspiracy theory' refrain might be shown to be a fact?

Ok I wasn't going to reply but I'll do one more. If a golf course, rugby field, cricket pitch, skate park, basketball court was under utilised and better served the community as something else then yes that should at the very least be explored. In this case it still serving the same community just in a different way.

I'm not sure conspiracy means what you think it does. A conspiracy is 'a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.' So delete the word conspiracy from all my posts and add that phrase in if you prefer. 

[K4309 260]

5 minutes ago, Okahu Sailor said:

Ok I wasn't going to reply but I'll do one more. If a golf course, rugby field, cricket pitch, skate park, basketball court was under utilised and better served the community as something else then yes that should at the very least be explored. In this case it still serving the same community just in a different way.

I'm not sure conspiracy means what you think it does. A conspiracy is 'a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.' So delete the word conspiracy from all my posts and add that phrase in if you prefer. 

Fairly sure you'll find it's under utilised because the operator got the boot, you booted all the boats off it and no one can haul out.

So as of now, it's just sitting their growing weeds. Yes you can legitimately say it is under utilised, but only cause you shafted it. Basic dirty tricks.

PS, still didn't answer re your major donor's financial interest in the Tamaki Marine Park. If it's not true, just give us a 'no'. We'll take silence as a yes.

[Timberwolfy 62]

And if a LOT of skateboarders turned up to the local board meeting about closing the skatepark and said, "hey this is our only safe spot to board in our community! we get huge value out of this space and if you take it away we are going to have to use footpaths and roads or give up our hobby entirely," I would really hope the local board would listen and come to a compromise. Not sit through their speeches, then tell the rest of the board before they voted that he'd still be voting to close it (shoutout to OLB Chair Scott Milne for doing exactly that last year).

[K4309 260]

1 hour ago, Okahu Sailor said:

Finally I hope that some of you appreciate hearing from the other side and for the rest I will leave you to your echo chamber. 

PS, think you'll find it's not an echo chamber, it's just that your arguement doesn't stack up.

[CarpeDiem 430]

21 minutes ago, Timberwolfy said:

I mean, seriously, the national governing body of the sport you claim to need this space for is telling you you're doing it wrong... If that doesn't make you think, nothing will.

That is quite the statement.

Imagine if YNZ dropped RAYC in support of the community they represent.

[Timberwolfy 62]

6 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Imagine if YNZ dropped RAYC in support of the community they represent.

That would be equally hilarious and infuriating that it got that far. This whole situation is an ugly bad dream for me.

 

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/landing-okahu-bay-last-chance-have-your-say

 

[harrytom 643]

Auckland boating population needs to find a suitable tide and grid at every available Wharf Where else can we clean off? You the council insist clean below good to go.Right.