Seafaring nation?

[Black Panther 1,776]

The difference is that these people are asking for help as through no fault of their own  they have nowhere else safe to go.

[CarpeDiem 540]

Playing devils advocate, allowing cruisers in, would create a backdoor into NZ for anyone with the means/money.

I would expect the boat brokers in the pacific could do quite well out of it.  And I am sure the cruisers would be able to charge a hansom price for a couple of extra crew positions.

A lot of people are stranded through no fault of their own and are asking for our help. That includes NZ citizens who don't have the means to get home from across the world.

 

[harrytom 698]

1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

The difference is that these people are asking for help as through no fault of their own  they have nowhere else safe to go.

They did have somewhere else to go like all cruisers. Back to their home port.

They knew our rules and regulations.Got turned down for visas yet still arrived.

https://www.customs.govt.nz/covid-19/maritime-border/private-yachts-and-sailing-craft

 

Arrivals on superyachts and pleasure craft are not exempt from the current border closure. Departures will be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

---

New Zealand waters are all water within 12 nautical miles of our coastline.

NZ's border is currently closed to almost all travellers to help stop the spread of COVID-19. Effectively, the NZ border is closed for all but essential travel. Only NZ citizens and residents, as well as some other specified travellers, are permitted to enter NZ without having to apply for an exception.

Visa waiver crew (including Australian citizens not resident in NZ) travelling on superyachts and pleasure craft are not exempt from the closure of NZ’s border, and current immigration instructions state they must be refused entry permission unless they meet one of the exceptions.

[Fish 0]

It would be fairly straight forward from a bureaucratic point of view to limit exemptions to those who are already in the Pacific now, by the basis of their current visa / passport stamps. The guts of it would be a one off to allow those currently in the pacific to come into NZ.

The issues start up with how long do you let the people stay in NZ, and then, what can they do with their boat, if they aren't allowed to stay? Do you let these people come in, park their boat and fly out straight away (lets say 1 week to get sorted), or do you let them come in and live aboard, in our bays not spending any money until such time as the global pandemic is over and they can continue sailing around the world?

One is easy but doesn't mean live aboards can live aboard, one is outstaying the welcome and causing overstayer issues, which is probably FP's current issue?

[Black Panther 1,776]

1 hour ago, harrytom said:

They did have somewhere else to go like all cruisers. Back to their home port

Why does this keep getting repeated when it is not correct?

[harrytom 698]

6 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Why does this keep getting repeated when it is not correct?

Please explain why it would not be correct.  Maybe not home port but certainly persons onboard have a country of origin,so why not return there.

[Black Panther 1,776]

31 minutes ago, harrytom said:

Please explain why it would not be correct.  Maybe not home port but certainly persons onboard have a country of origin,so why not return 

How do you safely sail from Tahiti to Germany in July? What route do you suggest?

[harrytom 698]

4 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

How do you safely sail from Tahiti to Germany in July? What route do you suggest?

I know nothing about offshore hence why I asked.knowing our laws why did they not try staying put it Aussie? Or do people see

 NZ as a soft

[harrytom 698]

Personally I do not see the problem arriving here if you can prove at sea over 14 days.But the law is the law admittity not a good one 

 

[Fish 0]

54 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

How do you safely sail from Tahiti to Germany in July? What route do you suggest?

Its not July, its October. In a month it will be November.

You can go from Tahiti to Europe via Cape Horn, just like some french guy did back in the early 60's, or you could head west, across the top of Aust, across the Indian Ocean and take your pick of the Suez Canal or Cape of Good Hope. By the time you get to Good Hope, it will be Christmas and a few less storms. There is enough of the world's navies around Suez now for it to be safe as houses. Just as long as no one starts a war in any number of the countries in that general area... All you need is a reliable water maker, (either an RO unit, or a tarp with a hole in it...) and quiet a few tins of food.

Plenty have sailed half way around the world none stop. The issue is probably more the wanting to, and the inertia of changing plans from where you actually want to go. Or the hope that some closer country will be reasonable and let you in. Especially if you offer to spend $50k at the first boat yard you find.

[dutyfree 170]

7 hours ago, marinheiro said:

and yet there seems to be international flights continuing to arrive almost daily from India (rapidly catching up to USA's case count), almost always carrying at least 1 COVID case. Of the 12 cases announced today 10 came from India. 

go figure??

And the relevance of NZ residents or citizens returning from India is what?  The reason we have quarantine is because NZers flying in can get here in 24 to 30 hours from anywhere in the world, as of right.  I would like to see a boat get here in 24 hours.

Funny how James Cameron and his film crew (filling their boots with NZ tax payer film subsidies) can get in.  America's cup crews can get in (also for tax payer subsidised activities), but a few hundred boaties cant.  And so what if a bunch of rich super yachts arrived, as long as they can support themselves (a standard requirement to come here as a tourist anyway), go through quarantine, just like the film crew, the americas cup crews etc and then spent money here?? What a bloody tragedy that would be.

What are we scared of, 1m people suddenly sailing to the arse end of the earth, to COVID nirvana??

[aardvarkash10 1,138]

We are not scared of anything.

Its called management.

The COVID event is not finished.  No-one can reliably say when that blessed day will arrive.  In that situaiton, we could conceivably have people arrive here and then be unable to leave for an extended period - perhaps up to two years.  Where would they go?  Everywhere is some degree of closed.

Movie crews arrive with documents stipulating their return to point of origin - its common for many work visas including some of staff I have.  Cruising boats, not so much.

They are germans.  Germany has a well funded consular network.  They were not in peril, they were inconvenienced at worse.  Had they been in peril, their government would have stepped in.

The world has changed folks.  The dreamy little gypsy fantasy of moving around the ocean at whim is on hold.  Get used to it.  

 

[Island Time 1,313]

2 hours ago, Fish said:

Its not July, its October. In a month it will be November.

You can go from Tahiti to Europe via Cape Horn, just like some french guy did back in the early 60's, or you could head west, across the top of Aust, across the Indian Ocean and take your pick of the Suez Canal or Cape of Good Hope. By the time you get to Good Hope, it will be Christmas and a few less storms. There is enough of the world's navies around Suez now for it to be safe as houses. Just as long as no one starts a war in any number of the countries in that general area... All you need is a reliable water maker, (either an RO unit, or a tarp with a hole in it...) and quiet a few tins of food.

Plenty have sailed half way around the world none stop. The issue is probably more the wanting to, and the inertia of changing plans from where you actually want to go. Or the hope that some closer country will be reasonable and let you in. Especially if you offer to spend $50k at the first boat yard you find.

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

Most cruisers take YEARS to complete a circumnavigation, they did not plan on extended continuous voyages, and their boats are not set up for that.

What you, and others on here are suggesting is not, IMO feasible.

I think if this goes on much longer, some will try to stay where they are (legally or not), and try to weather a cyclone if they are unlucky enough to encounter one. Some will abandon their or try to sell  boats and fly home, others will try what the German crew did, and some will try to sneak into countries that are closed.  It would be a difficult decision, whatever way they choose.

I'm sure glad its not me out there this year.

[Cantab 341]

https://www.facebook.com/NH.Hineamaru/

 

Customs at Opua and Covid 19

Some of our team went over to Opua Marina to check out the Covid 19 processes.

When the Covid Lock Down Levels had gone up, we looked to hold checkpoints on State Highway 1 at Waiomio.

Yet, we don't keep such a surveillance on our coastlines and especially with the tourist season starting to ramp up and yachts starting to enter our waters.

A very interesting point is that Customs NZ was first established on 5 January 1840, when the first Head of Customs was appointed in Kōrōrārēka!

So our team hooked up at the Opua Customs office with David Radovanovich and Mike Ford of Customs NZ to check out the processes and systems being employed by them to keep our borders tight.

Customs along with other agencies have been working on the management of this year’s small craft (yacht) arrival season, including at Ōpua.

The clearance of all craft is something Customs undertakes as normal business, this year is vastly different because of COVID19.

Some key points of the plan include how arriving yachts will be separated from public off shore and how contact will be managed until isolation period of 14 days and testing has been satisfied.

The isolation period includes time at sea. If a yacht arrives before the 12 days the vessel will be berthed and crew transferred to a managed isolation in Auckland to make up the 14 days.

• All vessels arriving into NZ must isolate for 14 days, however this starts from their last port or the last contact they had with other people. This means yachts who take ten days to get here alone will only have four days of isolation remaining.

• All crew on small craft arriving at Opua are required to be tested for COVID, and this will occur ashore near the secure Customs berth. All testing will be isolated from the public and the same cleaning and hygiene standards for testing at other ports followed.

 

So why aren't they letting cruisers in again?

 

[Black Panther 1,776]

12 hours ago, Fish said:

Its not July, its October. In a month it will be November.

You can go from Tahiti to Europe via Cape Horn, just like some french guy did back in the early 60's, or you could head west, across the top of Aust, across the Indian Ocean and take your pick of the Suez Canal or Cape of Good Hope. By the time you get to Good Hope, it will be Christmas and a few less storms. There is enough of the world's navies around Suez now for it to be safe as houses. Just as long as no one starts a war in any number of the countries in that general area... All you need is a reliable water maker, (either an RO unit, or a tarp with a hole in it...) and quiet a few tins of food.

Plenty have sailed half way around the world none stop. The issue is probably more the wanting to, and the inertia of changing plans from where you actually want to go. Or the hope that some closer country will be reasonable and let you in. Especially if you offer to spend $50k at the first boat yard you find.

This is not serious I hope.

 

Ah, I see IT has covered it. 

[2flit 52]

9 hours ago, Island Time said:

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

Most cruisers take YEARS to complete a circumnavigation, they did not plan on extended continuous voyages, and their boats are not set up for that.

What you, and others on here are suggesting is not, IMO feasible.

I think if this goes on much longer, some will try to stay where they are (legally or not), and try to weather a cyclone if they are unlucky enough to encounter one. Some will abandon their or try to sell  boats and fly home, others will try what the German crew did, and some will try to sneak into countries that are closed.  It would be a difficult decision, whatever way they choose.

I'm sure glad its not me out there this year.

Can Someone Please explain to me why the German cruisers who have EU passports (which allow them to stay in French Polynesia long term) .... why they can not have just stayed there or sailed back there to one of the two hurricane safe areas in FP?

 

[Fish 0]

1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

This is not serious I hope.

 

Ah, I see IT has covered it. 

If I was being silly,  I would have proposed going over the top of Canada, which if you left Tahiti in July, would have been open in August. Then its just a short hop to Hamburg.

[Fish 0]

10 hours ago, Island Time said:

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

No, the point I am making is that there are a number of options available. They are just not as attractive as doing what you had planned to do from the start. And its not clear why they can't provision in FP, other than that it is expensive.

More to the point, there is no shortage of flights into and out of FP, especially to Europe. The issue here is what to do with the boat. The last RNZ story on the Germans (the one with some actual details in it) indicated the underlying problem was the commercial terms to secure hauled out storage. Tahiti has a reputation for being hellishly expensive at the best of times. I imagine if there is high demand for hard stand space, the frogs will be price gouging. 

What I don't understand, is in a La Nina year, it sounds like there is as much chance of a cyclone in NZ as there is in Tahiti. Our last year was 2018, when we had 3. Golden Bay got munted, remember? Its not clear to me why these boats can't be left in the water in FP, and the crew fly home, other than cost.

And on the topic of the horn, or heading west and the range of boats, if you spend enough money, you can equip boats for the range. The point I am making is there are other options, but NZ is the easiest. The most obvious alternative we aren't discussing is Fiji, they are open.

The narrative that is being put buy you guys is that there are NO other options, and these boats MUST come to NZ. That is not correct. NZ is the easiest and cheapest option. This is why the OCC guy couldn't give a compelling argument.

And I think the underlying issue is not these guys coming into NZ, but when will they leave again? Once they are here, it is a bit rough to kick them out again in a years time if they whole world is still shut down. So what do we end up with, hundreds of yachts parked in every quiet bay up the northland coast, pooing away and catching all the fish? No disrespect to cruisers and live aboards, but it works now cause there aren't many of them (and there are more Kiwi's living aboard cause they couldn't get up to the islands). It would be a different proposition if you have 500 additional boats permanently living aboard in every desirable summer cruising ground.

[waikiore 501]

Interesting proposal from some of the 'Superyacht agents" here to allow "High Net Worth Individuals" in to isolate on their own boats , perhaps this exemption should be more widely known. Luckily I dont believe many are going to try that loophole as the cup will be a flash in the pan and best experienced with a TV and a glass of wine on North Head.

Without the magnificent J boats coming a lot of the interest has gone for me, hopefully the Coastal will see three or four Melges 40 battling it out and we can all concentrate on good yachting locally. 

[Priscilla II 450]

26 minutes ago, waikiore said:

cup will be a flash in the pan and best experienced with a TV and a glass of wine on North Head.

You will be very old and very grey by the time you get to and from North Head with the traffic the way it is and bugger all parking.