Who is going to buy our yachts and at what price?

[sow1ld 2]

I think that 1104 was a timber top one that need serious amount of work. The boat looked like it had been abandoned for a few years. That 88 at 35k is hard to believe it looks like a good boat!

Sometimes I think of getting something bigger faster etc but then selling mine would be hard work because I don't want to give it away. So I just enjoy what I have and what we do with her

[Guest]

If you have a lot on electricity use like air conditioning TV , computers, Electric cooking or NZ want to run a heater, TV - Computer, lights Electric jug, toaster and more - You will need a genset or find a marina with 30amp electricity or 3 phase power.

 

At 15 amps you can't run much. A 2000 watt heater will cause the circuit breaker action if you turn anything else on. A nuisance trying to remember heater. then what ever for so long then heater on again. Raining and the breaker clicks on pain pain or night long. or rum and coke and extra blankets to keep warm.

 

Myself I would always have a genset direct wiring to electrics panel board, then use the shore power when all other have been attended to.

 

OC

 

 

 

 

most use what I called the magic box to run the boat dockside, bring in 2 separate (same phase) legs of 15amp power join and run through a 30amp fuse and voila you have 30amps to fire up all the baubles and bangles that now seem so essential, have made a few of these boxes for various boats I've been on and no probs thus far, it does pay to check the 2 inputs with a multimeter in case the dock is 3 phase and liable to try to pop out 400v if different phases are used

 

Don't think the marina manager would be shouting any beers.

 

Typical cheap skate Boaties. That is the quickest way for all marinas to impose electricity charges for their berths all ready high fees as an additional fee by having locks on the electricity boxes.

 

 

What about the other boat when he wants to plug on. Sees both leads going to the same boat.

 

I know what I would do pull the lead.

 

Not quite on the topic. Similar attitudes caused Russel radio SSB ocean going position reporting weather reports to be discontinued.

 

OC.

 

 

totally wrong on several points, firstly a vessel that consumes or has the capacity to consume in the 20>30 amp range is not going to be able to move from one plug In dock to the next without some form of prior booking/ contact with destination Marina where such things as footage alongside and power/ water / pumpout facilities are stated so no surprises for either camp, a lot of marinas can and a lot do actually have 30amp available throughout for a certain fee however others have it figured that the fee for 2x15amp supplies is greater than a single 30A and they'll charge accordingly as well as try to charge you for the magic box so no surprises there that you carry your own.

secondly, generally speaking a vessel capable of this consumption is also, as a rule, going to be insured which means in essence you pass the buck with a clear papertrail (or as best you can) to avoid issues further down the track with regard to fault/ liability after all these vessels are generally not of the ferro/steel shoestring genre. Thirdly, while most of us really appreciate an organised thoughtfull switched on marina manager you need to understand that you are there under his rules/ guidelines and while most are pretty good at making you welcome etc etc the reaction they have to peasant like behaviour can be quite an eye opener particularly when their tolerance level has been exceeded. fourthly, with regard to Des at Russel radio, the service they provided as with the service that John etc provided from keri keri radio prior was superb, so superb in fact that a lot got the feeling they were dealing with a government funded agency and not very dedicated and skilfull amateurs so on arrival they went their merry way without another thought and carried on in general as budget cruisers do

[Guest]

If you have a lot on electricity use like air conditioning TV , computers, Electric cooking or NZ want to run a heater, TV - Computer, lights Electric jug, toaster and more - You will need a genset or find a marina with 30amp electricity or 3 phase power.

 

At 15 amps you can't run much. A 2000 watt heater will cause the circuit breaker action if you turn anything else on. A nuisance trying to remember heater. then what ever for so long then heater on again. Raining and the breaker clicks on pain pain or night long. or rum and coke and extra blankets to keep warm.

 

Myself I would always have a genset direct wiring to electrics panel board, then use the shore power when all other have been attended to.

 

Additionally to get on the roll call you had to ask to be included. If they overlooked about the donation bit I think, certainly I would ask the charge for fear on getting a bill for $ 200 or more like most Govt / organizations.

 

OC

 

 

 

 

most use what I called the magic box to run the boat dockside, bring in 2 separate (same phase) legs of 15amp power join and run through a 30amp fuse and voila you have 30amps to fire up all the baubles and bangles that now seem so essential, have made a few of these boxes for various boats I've been on and no probs thus far, it does pay to check the 2 inputs with a multimeter in case the dock is 3 phase and liable to try to pop out 400v if different phases are used

 

Don't think the marina manager would be shouting any beers.

 

Typical cheap skate Boaties. That is the quickest way for all marinas to impose electricity charges for their berths all ready high fees as an additional fee by having locks on the electricity boxes.

 

 

What about the other boat when he wants to plug on. Sees both leads going to the same boat.

 

I know what I would do pull the lead.

 

Not quite on the topic. Similar attitudes caused Russel radio SSB ocean going position reporting weather reports to be discontinued.

 

OC.

 

 

totally wrong on several points, firstly a vessel that consumes or has the capacity to consume in the 20>30 amp range is not going to be able to move from one plug In dock to the next without some form of prior booking/ contact with destination Marina where such things as footage alongside and power/ water / pumpout facilities are stated so no surprises for either camp, a lot of marinas can and a lot do actually have 30amp available throughout for a certain fee however others have it figured that the fee for 2x15amp supplies is greater than a single 30A and they'll charge accordingly as well as try to charge you for the magic box so no surprises there that you carry your own.

secondly, generally speaking a vessel capable of this consumption is also, as a rule, going to be insured which means in essence you pass the buck with a clear papertrail (or as best you can) to avoid issues further down the track with regard to fault/ liability after all these vessels are generally not of the ferro/steel shoestring genre. Thirdly, while most of us really appreciate an organised thoughtfull switched on marina manager you need to understand that you are there under his rules/ guidelines and while most are pretty good at making you welcome etc etc the reaction they have to peasant like behaviour can be quite an eye opener particularly when their tolerance level has been exceeded. fourthly, with regard to Des at Russel radio, the service they provided as with the service that John etc provided from keri keri radio prior was superb, so superb in fact that a lot got the feeling they were dealing with a government funded agency and not very dedicated and skilfull amateurs so on arrival they went their merry way without another thought and carried on in general as budget cruisers do

Charging for electricity must be new. Wellington and Pacific Islands to my knowledge don't, but will stand corrected if I'm wrong.

 

Excellent re the free loaders and trying to swindle insurance companies. Bet you boots the evidence would have be removed before the insurance assessors arrived.

 

Re Russell Radio

 

 

Agree they provided a excellent service. For people to gain the impression as you describe - with great respect to all, they obviously did not go to their website to gain the times and frequencies, other information and where not members . If they did they would have learned that they where not a government ORG / or dealing with a government funded agency and where dealing with very dedicated and skilful , amateurs as could be learned from their website, plus they where asking for donations. With respect again my friend do you know any government Department / GOVT ORG that asks for DONATIONS or and a members club fee.

 

They also must not have request their bosses / managers names in order that they could pass on references re their work skills, excellency beyond the call off duty, dedication and also so they could recommend them for a pay rise or promotion.

 

OC

[Tim C 23]

I think the mounting number of relic boats on moorings around the country is something we are just not prepared (yet) to face as a sailing culture that loves their boats.

How many boats would be the result of deceased estates, where the relatives have no idea what to do with the boat??

Think how much mooring space would be freed up if these abandoned boats were removed?

Surprisingly there appear to be abandoned boats on marinas now too, despite the ongoing cost.

The reality is someone has to pay to cut these boats up and dispose of them. Many have no value. Even the lead value would be eaten up in the disposal cost.

Then there is the operational boats that are trying to be sold, where their refit cost vastly exceeds their resale value. Again, they have no value left, and most likely need to be disposed of.

All of this would give opportunity for local and home builders to update our local fleet, with no excuse of 'no where to put a yacht'. Ideally not just with AWB, but some innovation again.

But I have no idea where the encouragement to dispose of old boats is going to come from...

[Clipper 360]

But I have no idea where the encouragement to dispose of old boats is going to come from...

 

The last few storms started the process....

[ex TL systems 63]

seems like most boats would sell on trademe if listed at a $1 reserve. Not sure what the buyers would do with them but every one loves a bargain even if they don,t really want it.

[Black Panther 1,701]

Agree. That's what i do when I need to sell a car, it always works.

[Tim C 23]

seems like most boats would sell on trademe if listed at a $1 reserve. Not sure what the buyers would do with them but every one loves a bargain even if they don,t really want it.

 

No no no. This is the point. So many of our boats will cost far more in refit, once you've done the paint job, replaced the old mast and rigging to make them safe, new sails, new squabs, re-wired and re gas lined etc etc, than you could ever hope to get as re-sale. In a 9-10m boat that is easily $100 000. Even if you do that, they are still old designs.

 

You are probably not driving a around in a Ford Sierra anymore, even though they were good cars at the time.

 

It is time to re-envigorate our fleet of launches and yachts with new and interesting craft that are efficient and perform well. Genuine classics need to be saved of course.

 

Our designers, boat builders, but most importantly our boat owners need to use some imagination again!

 

Our past Kiwi boats were a great part of boating evolution. Let's keep evolving...

[Jon 395]

It's a generational thing Tim, our gen can't resist a bargain even if they cost twice what they are worth !

But the coming gen's what it new and now, so what your saying will happen it will just take a couple of natural disasters and time

But I can see a opening for a boat dismatler to setup and buy for a $1 on trademe to scrap them

I get very surprised every time I walk around marinas at some of the boats that have weed longer than the rigging and can't believe that someone is paying the fees. Wtf

[Clive 13]

I think Tim hit the nail on the head with the old Ford Sierra analogy.

The designs are now just outdated and the new plastic fantastics are built like crap and will probably fall apart in 10 years but the designs are A1.

[sow1ld 2]

I think money is the key thing where forgetting. Sure I'd love bbw to draw me a new boat and have cookson build it for me and I'm sure 99% would love to update our old trojans but none of us have the readies up front.

Bargians on tme work because ppl think that over time they can re new upgrade etc in reality very little ppl achieve this because just the cost of owning a boat is dear enough.

So for us common folk well carry on having just as much fun with our outdated war houses as the guy in his new cookson all be it a little slower

[John B 108]

I can't speak about old glass boats because I know little about it, but we have a stock here of cold moulded kauri boats often overbuilt to hell and built by some of the best boat builders in the world. Unfortunately their value is dragged down by the world market which lumps them in with a lot of the crap that is built overseas.' Wooden' is a toxic word in overseas yacht broker language, and they don't distinguish between NZ built of kauri by Lidgard or Donalds or Eade or , or, or... and some iron fastened spec boat from the 40's.

They're still terrific boats, I'd rather be in mine at sea than some cheeky rafiki ,despite its age. Whats going on in those AWBs with regard to keel attachment, hull to deck joins and the through hulls!. Its a time bomb.

 

and then there's Intrinsic value, rather than sailing a commodity.

[sow1ld 2]

Totally agree motorbike it would also be interesting to compare the cost of owning a boat compared to the Hey days.

We pulled a mast out at Westhaven the other day $100 just to use the mast derrick then we got told we aren't allowed to drive it so a rigger has to come out. Two of them plus travel from miles away makes the total bill nearly $500 bucks for 45 mins work that we could have done easily ourselfs!

Gone are the days where I climbed up on the roof of the yacht Club to lash a block and a spinnaker sheet to the front beam of the travel lift so I could raise my mast and lower it in to the boat at low tied in the travel lift berth. Alll up cost me 1 doz steinlarger for the travel lift driver

[Black Panther 1,701]

You also need to consider societal changes since the 70's. The rich have got richer , the poor have got poorer and the middle class is shrinking.

[raz88 97]

The designs are now just outdated and the new plastic fantastics are built like crap and will probably fall apart in 10 years but the designs are A1.

 

I'm not sure whether I agree with this or not? Sure propper race boats have gotten faster, but I think the cruiser/racers aren't that far ahead of some 30 year old NZ designs.

 

Some of the more modern boats maybe have cleverer layouts etc, but in terms of performance are the modern racer/cruiser designs really that far ahead? Our fleets of Y88s, 1020s, Y11s E1050s etc all seem to stack up pretty well against equivalent sized more modern Euro production cruiser/racers you see racing here.

 

While I agree with some of the comments above about it being time for some boats to be put out to pasture, I'd still have a hard time convincing myself it was worth shelling out $250k+ for a new first 35/bavaria match/hanse etc when I could buy a tidy Y11 for a hundred.

[John B 108]

I agree about the performance , the older hulls aren't sleds and remain fairly easily driven when loaded. A wider tolerance to added weight.

I 'watched' a Clark 42 from what .. the mid '80's ? go up to the islands recently via one of the tracker sites. Plenty of 160 ,180 and even 200 mile days. That's loaded for several months cruising. Seemed too fast to me so I spoke to one of my friends who has one and he budgets on 160 but tends to average nearer the 180 mark. Nothing wrong with performance like that in a loaded cruising boat, two up and jib and main.

[Guest]

I think some need to be looking harder at themselves than they are at boating gear costs. I see more cost increases being owners 'wanting' more today than back a while when most were more than happy to have just what they 'need'. We see it everyday people wanting more than they really need, which is fine if they want to but they can't really bitch about increased costs if they are the soul reason for that increase.

 

I'm in the middle of making a new 30fter from a old one. The option I had was to give the existing the once over or import an equivalent (to be fair a superior faster sort of equivalent) from the EU for around 240K landed. But I had a desire to see what exactly it would cost to make a new 30fter from a old one, hence I'm not throwing lots at pro boat builders even though I could. I have spent a small amount on a pro just to ensure I did a couple of key areas very properly. So far I'm just not seeing the costs this thread would suggest there are. To be honest I have been surprised at how much cheaper the project has been to date, I was expecting to have paid more by now.

 

Prices have decreased, its the punters desires that have increased and with that the cost.

 

Designs haven't changed that much. Look around Akl Harbour most weekends and you'll see 25-30yo boats comfortably beating brand new ones.... and often brand new ones many feet larger.

[tuffyluffy 76]

I think some need to be looking harder at themselves than they are at boating gear costs. I see more cost increases being owners 'wanting' more today than back a while when most were more than happy to have just what they 'need'. We see it everyday people wanting more than they really need, which is fine if they want to but they can't really bitch about increased costs if they are the soul reason for that increase.

 

I'm in the middle of making a new 30fter from a old one. The option I had was to give the existing the once over or import an equivalent (to be fair a superior faster sort of equivalent) from the EU for around 240K landed. But I had a desire to see what exactly it would cost to make a new 30fter from a old one, hence I'm not throwing lots at pro boat builders even though I could. I have spent a small amount on a pro just to ensure I did a couple of key areas very properly. So far I'm just not seeing the costs this thread would suggest there are. To be honest I have been surprised at how much cheaper the project has been to date, I was expecting to have paid more by now.

 

Prices have decreased, its the punters desires that have increased and with that the cost.

 

Designs haven't changed that much. Look around Akl Harbour most weekends and you'll see 25-30yo boats comfortably beating brand new ones.... and often brand new ones many feet larger.

 

+1, totally agree. I did a similar thing a few years ago with an old 42fter and I've got the receipts, results and fun credits that prove it. There's a lot of false assumptions about what things cost, and what effort is involved to achieve it and what individuals desire.

 

There's an saying in my industry (process outsourcing) that I live by and that applies to most commercial decisions we make in life,

 

Price, Quality, Time - pick two.

I.e. if you want a job done to the best price, you'll need to sacrifice either the quality or the time taken, if you want a job done of the highest quality you'll need to sacrifice the price or the timeframe and if you want the job done fast, quality or price is going to suffer.

 

In my case I picked price and quality as I was prepared to take my time.

[Island Time 1,286]

What you to are missing, IMO, is that many people don't have, or believe they don't have the skills and time required to do this type of thing. If you guys calculated the costs of labor (your own) at even a moderate level, it would not be economic.

However, very few of us, if any, can turn our obsession into an economic entity...

[Changed 10]

We all get the same 24 hours per day and skills are learned. Passion, commitment and drive are intrinsic and it is those ingredients that are often absent. Everyone I know who has built a boat have given it their all.