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2nd hand yacht prices = ridiculous


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There is quite a thriving 'off the grid' market in marina rentals.The marina operators want to rent the berths, even private ones when the owner isn't using it, at high prices so they actively discourage, and in some cases say 'We retain the right' in the contract fine print, to set the prices. Obviously they want them high.

 

So with a bit of hunting and patience you can get a private rental hell cheaper, as long as you and the berth owner tell the marina operating the rent is well above what is actually changing hands.

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Yes its a mystery to me how westpark get away with the highest Opex charges, not many years ago we were introducing willing sellers to willing buyers of 12M berths up there on a Saturday morning at the chandlery - the price set was $5.00 each 12M berth. As far as I can see there is no reason for it to have risen, quite the opposite we had full access at all tides then!

Of course even the chandlery has collapsed now. 

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Trouble is I really don't see that much difference accross most of the marina's. The companies run them know that they have a captive market they can fleece and they are doing everything in their power to do so. Just look at The Gulf Harbour lot.

One of the problems is of course that there is a lot of boats in and around Auckland so that marina space is being pushed. We are starting to hear of people buying a boat because they want the berth and hope to flick the boat off cheap. Lol maybe thats what I need to do.

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Yes, the costs of ownership is going up, and boat prices are definitely down over the last years. It is s serious issue for ordinary owners. Here is a site with quite a few berths for rent to consider price differences;

 

http://www.marinaberths.com/berths-for-rent-new-zealand

 

Quite big price differences!

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Yet people must be paying, or the dude that owns the marina (same guy that owns Bayswater) would be going broke wouldn't he?

 

Simple. Where else do you go?

Charges are going up at Hobsonville Marina because he was told he should by the other Marina operators. Some of those cheap private owned ones are cheap at the mo because charges are being raised slowly for them. But they will eventually reach the full price.

Port Marl has us all by the short and curly's because they will not allow any more swing moorings to be put down. There is no competition to them in all of Marlborough now. The only private slip way around in Havelock cannot take Yachts unless they are a Keel Hull. And they are pretty much booked out nearly a year in advance anyway.

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There are some marinas that are run as co-operatives, not for profit, where the users are the owners, e.g. Sulphur Point Tauranga, and Half Moon Bay Auckland.  Those ones should show you the real cost of marina berths.

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And to add to that OBC and Milford in Auckland give you a fair indication of the true costs, of course having one person owning Westpark Pine Harbour and Bayswater will not help prices drop. Still the only reason for Westparks high yearly Opex seems to be their readiness to accept a large number of liveaboards, and ignore the local councils maximum percentages. I look forward to the new facility on the Northern side of Westhaven making things easier for a number of liveaboards down there too.

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The problem Auckland has is the marinas are owned by one dude or the council, both who love the smell of money and know the boaters have no other options. Also the one dude wants to turn the marinas into intensive housing so the boaties are just an annoying cash machine to him.

 

There is Orakei which is owned by the berth holders themselves, a bit like 1/2 Moon bay I'm thinking. Same with OBC and Milford I think.

 

Just think of the mega millions that will be demanded in the not too distance future as berth holders have to buy their leases again. Someone stands to make moonbeams for doing nothing.

 

 

On general prices we here were discussing why so  many are putting boat gear prices up when we see no good reason to do so. A very significant amount of our products haven't had a price change for 7-8 years, some longer. Sure we've had the odd small increase from manufacturers but the strong NZ$ has offset those. When you consider many of the names out there are now selling far far cheaper to buy chinese made when less than 10 years ago they were selling Aussie, US, or EU made, which does cost considerably more, we would expect to have seen some very large price decreases but we've seen the opposite. There are be a couple of key marine players running seriously large and increasing, large margins, far larger than they were 10 years ago. A lot of that would be due to them now buying china when they were buying EU, US or Aussie and simply didn't pass on the significant purchase price savings.

 

We also found one of our old price lists to see what we sell some stuff for today is significantly lower than it was when tat was done. I'll see if I can dig it out, we found it very interesting.

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By way of comparison, this boat is now for sale at our (member owned) club. 

It is in very good condition. 

 

I wonder what it would cost to ship it to NZ? 

 

1987 Sabre 30 Mark III. One of few available on the Great Lakes.
Excellent condition. Sails in great shape. New, upgraded diesel in 2006.
Numerous recent improvements. Includes cradle. Ready to cruise or race.
Can be seen in water at SSC Dock A24. Asking $39,900.
Contact   ---

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under the Auckland unitary? plan,who knows whats going to happen to swing moorings,will they still be allowed or will we forced in to marinas?those that had drying out moorings in ngataringa bay etc were free but then h/b office started charging fees,we had one which we kept the trailer boat on,handy but tidal.

 

Rumour has it piles berths in tamaki river may be getting a length/tonnage restrictions. ie 40ft max 14ton

not many accommodating swing moorings around so maybe forced to marinas?

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I find the Tamaki pile moorings a great value solution to boat ownership, but not really suited to going out for a day sail, which we never do anyway, I would never consider a marina berth as a long term proposal , and if that was all that was available I would either give up sailing go back to a decent size trailersailer, which was a very cheap and easy form of boat ownership with none of the hassles of antifouling etc.

Owning a big expensive high maintenance ocean going boat is one way of cruising faroff exotic destinations, If you want to cruise the Med or Carribean etc there is also the option of buyig a cheap local boat , and reselling once you have had enough, there is a good story of a NZ guy that cruised the US in a 15 ft open boat and the same has been done in Fiji, sailing doesn,t have to be expensive to be fun. 

Shared ownership has to be worth investigating too , most boats are used less than 10% of the year

One of the reasons I have never had a keeler , apart from the fact I don,t like leaning over or sinking, is that there is always soo many of them for sale, and so they are very hard to sell unless you are lucky or you reduce the price heaps, cruising cats seem to hold their price better although there is starting to be some very cheap multis now that still arn,t selling, Krisis was fair value when offered at 80 a few years and now is still not sold at 30 ono, and that racing  cat Taiping in Auckland is crazy cheap at 75.

Need to keep telling myself don,t ever buy my next boat before I,ve sold my present boat again. 

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One of the reasons I have never had a keeler , apart from the fact I don,t like leaning over or sinking,

 

Can't say I'm keen on the sinking part. Hasn't happened to me yet. Am I doing something wrong?

 

is sailing really in decline? I know club membership is. But are there less sailors? Is this as a percentage of population or in absolute terms? Does petrol prices have something to do with it? Perhaps it just that sailing had its heyday in the 70's-90's and there are too many other things to do for leisure?

 

One aspect is certain, boats like houses are much bigger than they used to be. Who'd contemplate building a quarter tonner these days? Or 28 footer? I'm reading a book from the 70's where the common opinion was that 25foot was the perfect size for a cruising couple.

 

I've tried the trailer sailer and the swing mooring but I love the step on convenience of a marina. I doubt they are cheap to build.

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If sailing is in decline it may be that, apart from the cost ,  sailing is actually quite hard work as far as a holiday or recreation goes. And people may be getting lazier, or have less time to invest in a boat. Air travel is cheap and easy these days, and getting a boat ready  for a cruise is a lot  different to simply flying to Fiji for 3 weeks of warm weather. Or maybe its climate change, every year in june the climate seems to change to something that makes me not want to have a boat, or at least not want to go sailing in it in NZ. ;-)   Still it seems that even in Queensland which has ideal sailing all year boat prices are low and hard to sell, maybe something to do with the mining downturn etc.     Just don,t panic ,have a cup of tea, light the fire, and think of summer. :thumbup: 

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I find the Tamaki pile moorings a great value solution to boat ownership, but not really suited to going out for a day sail, which we never do anyway, I would never consider a marina berth as a long term proposal , and if that was all that was available I would either give up sailing go back to a decent size trailersailer, which was a very cheap and easy form of boat ownership with none of the hassles of antifouling etc.

Owning a big expensive high maintenance ocean going boat is one way of cruising faroff exotic destinations, If you want to cruise the Med or Carribean etc there is also the option of buyig a cheap local boat , and reselling once you have had enough, there is a good story of a NZ guy that cruised the US in a 15 ft open boat and the same has been done in Fiji, sailing doesn,t have to be expensive to be fun. 

Shared ownership has to be worth investigating too , most boats are used less than 10% of the year

One of the reasons I have never had a keeler , apart from the fact I don,t like leaning over or sinking, is that there is always soo many of them for sale, and so they are very hard to sell unless you are lucky or you reduce the price heaps, cruising cats seem to hold their price better although there is starting to be some very cheap multis now that still arn,t selling, Krisis was fair value when offered at 80 a few years and now is still not sold at 30 ono, and that racing  cat Taiping in Auckland is crazy cheap at 75.

Need to keep telling myself don,t ever buy my next boat before I,ve sold my present boat again. 

we are on a swing mooring by pybc,left at 10.00am back by 4.00 pm great sail up to westhaven and back,3/4 hr motor down river good time to charge battery and a cuppa

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I did do a day sail  up to Long beach once to give the hulls a scrub and the distance from Panmure to Motuihe is about the same as from Westhaven, I just find getting on and off the pile mooring takes a little bit more time as  sometimes I need to wait for the tide to change. It is very secure and sheltered though and I  prefer to go out for a few nights as a minimum anyway so  I don,t need  to rush. A swing mooring would make it a lot easier getting on and off with just one line to pick up. 

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It's the old  story of supply and demand. Today's throw away society with planned obsolescence means I want it now ,I want it all done for me and I have to work to get the money to pay .Consequently I don't have time for all those things that require my effort .Participation actively in most sports / activities is in sharp decline. Add to this the disconnection between Admin and participants and you have the situation summed up. Golf , motor racing ,rugby sailing to name a few examples

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