armchairadmiral 411 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Just submit " no wash"...it doesn't matter what speed.In any event consultation is meaningless. The decision has already been made.Consultation is a feelgood token to democracy so that us minions can feel like we've been involved....when we haven't !!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 52 minutes ago, Tamure said: I dont want to be an aqua karen Well if you’re not prepared to help the collective effort to help / change / improve things don’t complain about the situation then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 BP, you need to click the blue "Have your say" button, then on the next page scroll to the bottom and Sign in, or Register, then the online survey will appear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 This what I put in the appropriate section...... not the best wording perhaps but it was very early this morning.. 😏 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, Terry B said: This what I put in the appropriate section...... not the best wording perhaps but it was very early this morning.. 😏 I think that’s spot on. Well done. Don’t worry about the finesse of the wording it’s the intent of your message that matters not how you said it (thankfully this forum is not yet full of woke snowflakes so the focus is mainly on the meaning not the messenger)! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,586 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 hours ago, ex Elly said: BP, you need to click the blue "Have your say" button, then on the next page scroll to the bottom and Sign in, or Register, then the online survey will appear. Ahh, sign in. That's where I normally walk away. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Ok, I get the picture. Entirely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winter 42 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 The results so far: 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Done but crikey had to swap from tablet to computer to register caps lock plus 8 characters and numbers password wtf. Got ominous feeling that this is a done deal going to be like the recent costly Council consultation on rates increases choices which were promptly dismissed and ignored. I'm for 10knots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 76 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 12 knots is probably the worst possible speed they could choose for generating wake... most big launches are trying to get over the hump and plane at this speed so generate the biggest waves. 18knots at least lets them plane and the wakes actually reduce. Personally I think the inner harbour (North head in) is crap for racing, big tide, heavy traffic, shitty wind from the buildings etc. I'm actually in favour of P.O.A extending wharfs and hopefully that forces the yacht clubs to start and finish racing at Orakei. The improved quality of racing would more than make up for the 30 min motor (positive side effect is it gives fridge time to cool the drinks!) 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Went to register and no I did not follow through. Might as well for income. I object to surveys when the ask are you male/female other. Maori,tonga,europen etc age Hmm ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, KM... said: That's because it's part of the exempt fleet who are allowed too at specific times or situations. Also it's berth is only just around the corner from it's berth is the high speed lane which opens to no restriction waters so it's 'Sub 12kt' zone is only a few 100m at best, most of which is inside the Ports restricted area. No I meant they break their own rules about speed limits and zones. Don’t ask me how I know this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rangi1 51 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Just now, Fogg said: No I meant they break their own rules about speed limits and zones. Don’t ask me how I know this. How do you know this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Cameron said: Personally I think the inner harbour (North head in) is crap for racing, big tide, heavy traffic, shitty wind from the buildings etc. I'm actually in favour of P.O.A extending wharfs and hopefully the forces the yacht clubs to start and finish racing at Orakei. The improved quality of racing would more than make up for the 30 min motor (positive side effect is it gives fridge time to cool the drinks!) Wow. I think Ive stated that word for word a number of times! Finish the race, by the time you are in, boats packed up, sail cover on, beers opened... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cantab 341 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Winter said: The results so far: Classic council survey. 10 is winning, 8 votes, good enough to claim a mandate. "most people preferred...." 8 votes are for faster than the current limit, did they win too? Every option has more people voting against it than for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Rangi1 said: How do you know this? I know this because POA installed a new AIS system earlier this year (with Vesper) that monitors the position & speed of each individual pilot boat in their fleet and sends them individual warning alerts to their Vesper transceivers if they approach or enter a speed restricted area at excessive speed. But the system didn’t work properly and the personalised AIS messages saying “slow the f*ck down boat #3” that were meant to be sent to the specific pilot boat’s MMSI were sent to me instead. So as a ship either entered or left Auckland I would start getting multiple alarms (loud and annoying) to my MFD as the pilots broke their own POA speed limits whilst they were too busy eating donuts and running over marine life. Vesper had to come to my boat to set up a workaround on my MFD to stop the alerts. But I had to put up with this sh*t everyday I was on the boat for about a month until they did that. So based on that I reckon the pilots are still flouting their own rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Unless I missed it,there are 2 very important question that needed to be asked. 1)are you a user of the Waitemata. 2)What type of vessel do you use. These are important because you get all sorts responding who may never ever use the harbour and 2 if enough respondents are power vessel owners it would go in their favour to increase speeds, but if the majority were shown to be kayakers/yacht's it could be a different outcome. Its proberly already set in stone and council just going through the motions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 We have been through this all before when they introduced the limit. It was originally planned to be a 10 knot limit, but after consultation they set it at 12 knots to reduce wake because some launches can't plane at 10 knots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigal.nz 59 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 I have replied with this : I want the speed limit decreased on several grounds which are set out in numbered paragraphs below. I am a frequent user of the Waitemata harbour and make these submissions on many years of recreational experience on the harbour: (1) Increasing the speed does not increase safety - it makes it worse. The councils primary consideration in any speed changes should be that of safety (in terms of decreasing risk of collision) and any wake/planing considerations should be secondary to that. I have seen many many incidents which nearly resulted in collisions. (2) It is evident in my experience that many recreation users of the harbour are not aware of the precedence that maritime laws and bylaws take. The 5 knots within 50m of another boat takes precedence over the 12 knot limit, but many boats owners on boat the Waitemata harbour and Tamaki River are not aware of this and seem to think the 12 knots overrides the 5 knot rule. I know this because I have "educated" several power boaters in recent months and there response (incorrectly) is that they are allowed to do 12 knots. (3) Speed Creep: Currently many boats see 12 knots and creep a bit above it and the resulting false speed ceiling is in reality really about 15-18 knots. By making it 18 knots the speed creep now really becomes more like 22-25 knots which is extremely fast for this busy part of the harbour. (4) Lack of Enforcement - directly related to paragraph 4 is the complete lack of enforcement. From time to time I see the harbour master, and the occasional verbal warning issued, but I have never heard of enforcement action. The harbour master is rarely seen. Also on the issue of lack of enforcement - I have tendered video evidence to the Harbour Master to 5 knot speed breaches. Harbour Master replied to me that its not admissible as it would not prove the speed/distance breach - this is not true as experienced captains can give a speed/distance estimated based on expert opinion evidence (Section 25 / Evidence Act 2006). In summary reduce the speed limit to 10 knots with zero tolerance enforcement is the submission. Anything else will result in increased risk of collision. Did someone say the had the HM take action on video evidence? They wouldn't entertain it when I rang them - didn't even want to see the video. Granted that wake causes accidents - but generally not as bad as what happens when boats collide. 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, bigal.nz said: I have replied with this : I want the speed limit decreased on several grounds which are set out in numbered paragraphs below. I am a frequent user of the Waitemata harbour and make these submissions on many years of recreational experience on the harbour: (1) Increasing the speed does not increase safety - it makes it worse. The councils primary consideration in any speed changes should be that of safety (in terms of decreasing risk of collision) and any wake/planing considerations should be secondary to that. I have seen many many incidents which nearly resulted in collisions. (2) It is evident in my experience that many recreation users of the harbour are not aware of the precedence that maritime laws and bylaws take. The 5 knots within 50m of another boat takes precedence over the 12 knot limit, but many boats owners on boat the Waitemata harbour and Tamaki River are not aware of this and seem to think the 12 knots overrides the 5 knot rule. I know this because I have "educated" several power boaters in recent months and there response (incorrectly) is that they are allowed to do 12 knots. (3) Speed Creep: Currently many boats see 12 knots and creep a bit above it and the resulting false speed ceiling is in reality really about 15-18 knots. By making it 18 knots the speed creep now really becomes more like 22-25 knots which is extremely fast for this busy part of the harbour. (4) Lack of Enforcement - directly related to paragraph 4 is the complete lack of enforcement. From time to time I see the harbour master, and the occasional verbal warning issued, but I have never heard of enforcement action. The harbour master is rarely seen. Also on the issue of lack of enforcement - I have tendered video evidence to the Harbour Master to 5 knot speed breaches. Harbour Master replied to me that its not admissible as it would not prove the speed/distance breach - this is not true as experienced captains can give a speed/distance estimated based on expert opinion evidence (Section 25 / Evidence Act 2006). In summary reduce the speed limit to 10 knots with zero tolerance enforcement is the submission. Anything else will result in increased risk of collision. Did someone say the had the HM take action on video evidence? They wouldn't entertain it when I rang them - didnt even want to see the video. We had reason to contact the harbour master vessel in Tamaki river a few yrs ago due to the 50m 5knt rule,they happened to of gone past us ealier,called on vhf16 and they responded to vessel concerned. When we went past they were getting lecture on the ruless.Good outcome!. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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