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Fatality - Northland


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..... until they aren't?

https://www.google.com/search?q=glass+bridge+shatters&rlz=1C1GCEU_enNZ893NZ893&oq=glass+bridge+shatters&aqs=chrome..69i57j46i175i199j0i433j46i433j0i131i433i457j0i402l2j0i10i131i433j0i131i433j0i271.5457j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I'm not weighing in one way or the other - I think the reality is that well engineered windows could be an adequate solution, but they could also be a potential dire weakness. And whether a shattered window would pose a material risk to life would depend on the individual vessel.

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2 hours ago, Adrianp said:

The issue is that the inspectors will now have to grant an exemption that is directly contrary to the rules. These new rules have left the inspectors between a rock and a hard place. They were able to ignore the issue this year as the rules only came about a month before the start of the cruising season. 

I've had some discussions with my inspector about this and his initial thoughts were that he may be able to still sign us off but would have to get a second inspector to check my windows with him, just to cover his ass if something goes wrong in the future. That will only be a short term arrangement and eventually we'll need to meet the rule, making the boat weaker and unsafer in the process.  

I know a lot of current Cruising Multis and only one has shutters, and they had them made prior to this as their windows have a significant curve to them and they knew it would be an issue if they broke one. 

I don't know where I'm going to store my 9 shutters in between passages. Our current emergency ply window is as big as a single bunktop. 9 of them is going to make that bunk unusable. 

What’s the deal with the  French doors on most cruising multi’s, surely they would also need shutters?

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6 minutes ago, Jon said:

What’s the deal with the  French doors on most cruising multi’s, surely they would also need shutters?

The (M) rule applies to exposed windows only, while the (K) rule applies to all windows.

Guessing that those back windows probably are not considered 'exposed'. 

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35 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

The (M) rule applies to exposed windows only, while the (K) rule applies to all windows.

Guessing that those back windows probably are not considered 'exposed'. 

Except to following seas 😳

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How do MNZ/YNZ view the widely accepted European Directive 2013/53/EU on recreational craft?

ie. the A through D classification for design and construction? 

It's understood that NZ has some tough weather, but it takes a special kind of exceptionalism to think that such weather and sea conditions don't also occur in the North Sea or on the Atlantic coast.

 

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8 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

How do MNZ/YNZ view the widely accepted European Directive 2013/53/EU on recreational craft?

ie. the A through D classification for design and construction? 

It's understood that NZ has some tough weather, but it takes a special kind of exceptionalism to think that such weather and sea conditions don't also occur in the North Sea or on the Atlantic coast.

 

Not that I know much about this, but if the objective is to make risk = zero then we should just ban offshore cruising.  It seems like that in much of modern life, that the individual analysis ignores the probability of an event.  What was the probability of being exactly where this yacht was and experiencing the actual combination of physical events that led to the deaths?  I don't know.  If it was fundamentally a design flaw or systemic failure then ban that type of yacht from offshore or have them fixed.  If it was poor decision making then the probabilities won, you cant (generally) beat the tail probabilities of natural events i.e. we don't design house to last forever, be impervious to fire or withstand an 8 earthquake.  Risk and reward, there is no such thing as no risk and absolute certainty (except death).

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The Yacht was on its way back to NZ, Cat 1 did not apply for that voyage. MNZ seem to be talking as if it did.

As DF says, maybe that design is deficient and should be banned?

Maybe everyone should have pre approved routing before being let go?

Maybe some Navel architect, yacht designer, Boat owners, Clubs had some input into the new rules? Love to see the correspondence.

many other unrealistic possibilities available, just like a few bits of screwed plywood would have saved this yacht.

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Every now and again a cow or horse goes through a car windscreen and kills an occupant of that vehicle .

windscreens  and  farm fences haven’t been modified to prevent it this happening again . Deaths at sea are extremely dramatised in the same way as shark attacks are . Offshore Sailing is way less dangerous than hurtling through pine forests on motorcross bikes or walking up Mt taranaki in shorts and T shirt . Both those examples of dangerous recreational activities have zero rules or restrictions placed on them . 

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Are these rules defined by YNZ or Maritime NZ?

How do they apply to them to offshore motorboats - a small number of long range motorboats in NZ also do the islands trips.

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40 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

It also bugs a fair numbers of cruisers who choose not to belong to a y c  (maybe up to 50%at a guess) that YNz pretends to represent them and can impose rules on them.

Probably better than having a  Govt. Dept,paid bureaucrat,and costs imposed by them ? It's a conumdrum

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