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Damn the Rules, Rocna Inventor doing the NW Passage


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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

https://news.oceancruisingclub.org/home/index/1386

 

Who thinks these guys should ignore the bureaucrats and sail to NZ.

Different circumstances, one example someone wants to transit a waterway near a country, the other, people want to enter that country and stay for an extended period. In the second example, how they get there is largely irrelevant in the eyes of immigration, and for all practical purposes, the issue is entry to the country, not that they sailed to that country. In the other example, you could put an arguement it is a freedom of navigation exercise. The only similarity is that both examples are on boats.

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26 minutes ago, Fish said:

Different circumstances, one example someone wants to transit a waterway near a country, the other, people want to enter that country and stay for an extended period. In the second example, how they get there is largely irrelevant in the eyes of immigration, and for all practical purposes, the issue is entry to the country, not that they sailed to that country. In the other example, you could put an arguement it is a freedom of navigation exercise. The only similarity is that both examples are on boats.

+1

The only similarity is that both stories involve bureaucrats that have lost the ability to apply common sense to situation.

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17 minutes ago, Kevin McCready said:

Bureaucrats don't make laws. They interpret them and are subject to the courts. At least learn to vent your spleen appropriately.

They may not make laws but as with all laws, it is down to interpretation. You will find different bureaucrats have different interpretations which leeds to total confusion.

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13 minutes ago, Kevin McCready said:

Bureaucrats don't make laws. They interpret them and are subject to the courts. At least learn to vent your spleen appropriately.

I think that depends on your interpretation of the word Kev.

Bureaucracy (/bjʊəˈrɒkrəsi/) refers to both a body of non-elected government officials and an administrative policy-making group.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy

That aside interpretation seems to be the crux of the problem here atleast in the Peter Smith situation.

As far as the pacific cruisers are concerned I am sure the policy that effects them could easily be ammended or at the very least influenced by dare I say it, bureaucrats....

 

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Agreed, but the job description seems to attract more than its share of cockwombles that prefer to tick boxes, (usually cross) on  generic

formatted documents (on tablets) that bares only a rudimentary similarity to the situation at hand. God knows what the author of

the script was thinking.

Or more simply they are mindless robots with no spine.

Some reside in glass towers draughting irrelevant shite, because they have never been at the coal face.

Unproductive paper pushers of the worst order.

I believe in a clean wake, so 50/50 on this. Each case on its own merit.

 

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Yeah, what ever. 

Disproportionately to rest of society, infected with same disease, tarred with same brush, same defective genes.

To deny us the right use common sense or #8 wire to fix things.

And the will to do good work.

The cotton wool mist is getting thicker by the day.

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On 29/08/2020 at 7:02 AM, Sabre said:

Agreeing with the above statement makes it three times in about two weeks. Very unsettling to say the least.

When it does happen I have learnt to breathe into a paper bag until I stop hyperventilating....

I'm using Gin, seems to be working OK.

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On 29/08/2020 at 9:45 AM, grantmc said:

In answer to your question, I think that ignoring the law and just sailing to NZ or Oz would have significant negative consequences. 
In Oz they'd just be regarded as wealthy 'boat people', their yachts confiscated and lengthy periods in one of the many Immigration camps until they could be repatriated.
Here in NZ consequences wouldn't be much better.

Agree, very different circumstances.

Agree the consequences would be negative in Aussie as it should be.

But disagree with the last sentence as I suspect all that would happen if they turned up here is a strongly worded letter at best.

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39 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

^Only if they are NZ citizens or residents and can show they have a specific need or meet the relevant criteria.  You know, just to keep it real and not ZB-ish...

yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz

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14 minutes ago, marinheiro said:

yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz

I don't know, anyone who can succeed after being detained for 6 years would appear to have a bit of tenacity, and may well be an asset to the country. Perhaps he could teach tenacity at schools, would be a hell of a good lesson in how you have to make sacrifices and preserver to achieve a goal.

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24 minutes ago, marinheiro said:

yeah like this guy who lied thru his teeth to get a visitors visa and now we are stuck with him

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122166500/iranian-writer-behrouz-boochani-granted-refugee-status-in-nz

What a complete and utter falsehood.

Behrouz was invited to come here for a writers festival and made a fully legal and compliant application for refugee status after enduring six years of our Aussie neighbours abominable inhumane refugee policies.

Hang your head in shame with Armchair where’s your humanity.

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Shame that some people still don't want to respect the law. This thread has come in a nice circle. People who think Smith should break the law seem to the same people who don't understand that NZ has signed up, and good on us, to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.

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15 minutes ago, Priscilla II said:

What a complete and utter falsehood.

Actually it's not. He was invited here for the festival, that is correct. When he got here there was a wee whoha about it at which time he specifically said 'I'm here for the festival then leaving as per my visitors visa'. His sponsor, the Greens, swore black and blue he was he for the festival only and it was not an attempt to sneak in the back door or short cut any procress.

At the time a LOT of people called that bullshit, the greens are full of sh*t and lieing, most wise money said Gloria Wokie the green women was full of it just like writer dude. The greens and their pastys plus the dude deigned that vehemently.

Yet here we are and so is he.

The humanity or whatever aside, the greens lied, he lied and now NZ is stuck with him for better or worse.

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35 minutes ago, Priscilla II said:

What a complete and utter falsehood.

Behrouz was invited to come here for a writers festival and made a fully legal and compliant application for refugee status after enduring six years of our Aussie neighbours abominable inhumane refugee policies.

Hang your head in shame with Armchair where’s your humanity.

He tried to queue jump the Australian immigration process. 

he came to NZ on a 1 month visitors visa, having represented that he had been accepted for resettlement in USA. Obviously had no intention of leaving NZ, overstayed with the help of his Green friend and the government being selective about enforcing the law. 

Suggest you start a thread in Small talk if you want to continue this discussion

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^and yet, no outcry from any other party in the house.  

Its an irrelevance.  We have a quota - and its miserly (ironically even by comparison to our Tasman neighbours).  Any accepted refugee displaces another off the list, so its a zero-sum game.  Personally, I'm comfortable that we have taken an educated and published author and film-maker who has been employed here from the day he had legal ability to be in paid employment.

 

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