Seafaring nation?

[Fogg 427]

Are these the right actions for a boat-loving and “kind” nation:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362523

[Cantab 341]

refugees jumping the cue rings a bell

 

but seriously can't see the problem, maybe run out of competent Public Servants to organise and monitor even though it seems to be pretty fully organised by the private sector already.

Pretty hard to reopen a country with this sort of decision making going on. Maybe there will be a big turn around once all those votes are in.

[Fogg 427]

I’m trying to keep this tightly on-topic and not about wider immigration policy and political refugees etc... Purely a comparison with how other countries - like Malaysia, Indonesia and Panama for example - have dealt with the issue of cruisers over the last few months.

 

Should NZ be thinking more creatively &  pragmatically - and doing more specifically about cruisers in our region?

 

[Black Panther 1,767]

And Fiji. Sad, a real opportunity lost there.

[marinheiro 365]

I would speculate with the election only 6 weeks away the government just does not want to make a decision about something like this. Also I think resources here are stretched as it is so they do not want to add to it.

I was told by a police contact that even though time at sea is isolation from the "common sense' perspective, it is not the case legally. You are only considered isolated in NZ once in NZ territorial waters. I remember watching the Zatara videos, they spent ~22 days in quarantine at Fiji before they were cleared in.

[Bradz 20]

9 hours ago, marinheiro said:

I would speculate with the election only 6 weeks away the government just does not want to make a decision about something like this. Also I think resources here are stretched as it is so they do not want to add to it.

I was told by a police contact that even though time at sea is isolation from the "common sense' perspective, it is not the case legally. You are only considered isolated in NZ once in NZ territorial waters. I remember watching the Zatara videos, they spent ~22 days in quarantine at Fiji before they were cleared in.

Zatara stopped at Minerva, therefore restarting their clock. They released a comprehensive video of Fiji's "Blue Lanes" initiative. Something that could easily be modified and adopted to apply here. Based on where our current MIQ facilities are located, near large hospitals, hence why Queenstown wasn't utilised, I wouldn't expect this government to allow en mass Q at Opua.

[wheels 544]

It is pure and simple poor communication and management of the situation by the Gvt. They are, very sadly, demonstrating this same level of bad communication and management in many situations.
So Super Yachts have been given the clearance to head to NZ. The smaller Yachts that are asking to be let in have had no reply via direct communication from the Gvt at all. They found out there was a "No" to them coming here only by reading the Gvt Website. That is very poor.

[waikiore 484]

I have sympathy for English cruisers that were in the Pacific at the start of all this, however not much for the yachts that left here for Fiji during the first lockdown  assuming they would get back in. 

[marinheiro 365]

2 hours ago, waikiore said:

I have sympathy for English cruisers that were in the Pacific at the start of all this, however not much for the yachts that left here for Fiji during the first lockdown  assuming they would get back in. 

the Zatara crew are a good example of the latter. It does not look like Australia or NZ is likely to let them in so their only bail out option if they want to leave the cyclone region is to head north to Palau or Guam, ie US territories(sort of in the case of Palau)

[wheels 544]

33 minutes ago, marinheiro said:

3 hours ago, waikiore said:

I have sympathy for English cruisers that were in the Pacific at the start of all this, however not much for the yachts that left here for Fiji during the first lockdown  assuming they would get back in. 

the Zatara crew are a good example of the latter. It does not look like Australia or NZ is likely to let them in so their only bail out option if they want to leave the cyclone region is to head north to Palau or Guam, ie US territories(sort of in the case of Palau)

Errrr, surely unless they were already cleared to go, they would not have been able to. Who would have cleared them? If they did get cleared after lock down, then that is a Gvt stuff up.
 I can certainly understand that if a Vessel was ready to go and had clearance, it would be far better to get going. In fact Customs would likely be doing everything they could to get the boat underway. Once a Vessel is cleared, they really have no choice but to go. You are kinda forced to leave by the law. You cannot stop anywhere in NZ. I can only imagine that if for some reason you can't leave, you would have to go through the entire process of being checked back. Which would then mean you would have to go back through the entire process required for leaving NZ once lockdown was lifted.

[marinheiro 365]

49 minutes ago, wheels said:

Errrr, surely unless they were already cleared to go, they would not have been able to. Who would have cleared them? If they did get cleared after lock down, then that is a Gvt stuff up.
 I can certainly understand that if a Vessel was ready to go and had clearance, it would be far better to get going. In fact Customs would likely be doing everything they could to get the boat underway. Once a Vessel is cleared, they really have no choice but to go. You are kinda forced to leave by the law. You cannot stop anywhere in NZ. I can only imagine that if for some reason you can't leave, you would have to go through the entire process of being checked back. Which would then mean you would have to go back through the entire process required for leaving NZ once lockdown was lifted.

not sure what you are getting at Wheels. Zatara (US flagged) received clearance out of NZ late June/early July on the basis that Fiji had pre-approved their entry subject to negative COVID tests before leaving NZ. They still had to stay quarantined for 2 weeks upon arrival at Denerau and were tested again

[Gappy 9]

12 hours ago, wheels said:

It is pure and simple poor communication and management of the situation by the Gvt. They are, very sadly, demonstrating this same level of bad communication and management in many situations.
So Super Yachts have been given the clearance to head to NZ. The smaller Yachts that are asking to be let in have had no reply via direct communication from the Gvt at all. They found out there was a "No" to them coming here only by reading the Gvt Website. That is very poor.

Super yachts haven't been given the go ahead that's also a massive issue they have to apply and insolate once arrived. The amount applying vs getting approved is very little.

[waikiore 484]

Correct Gappy dont expect many here now

[grantmc 59]

On 7/09/2020 at 2:04 PM, wheels said:

Errrr, surely unless they were already cleared to go, they would not have been able to. Who would have cleared them? If they did get cleared after lock down, then that is a Gvt stuff up.
 I can certainly understand that if a Vessel was ready to go and had clearance, it would be far better to get going. In fact Customs would likely be doing everything they could to get the boat underway. Once a Vessel is cleared, they really have no choice but to go. You are kinda forced to leave by the law. You cannot stop anywhere in NZ. I can only imagine that if for some reason you can't leave, you would have to go through the entire process of being checked back. Which would then mean you would have to go back through the entire process required for leaving NZ once lockdown was lifted.

I can make a comment on the point made. This has happened to me. 3 years ago I crewed on an Australian registered yacht and we cleared and departed Tauranga. We had all manner of issues with the boat and as you might deduce she wasn't up to the intended overseas passage. It wont help top get in to details, blame etc. But after several days the owner/skipper accepted the only option was to turn back. As it happened, and I think for reasons of anonymity, the Skipper choose Gisborne, and so Customs were radioed and gave permission to enter NZ. Gisborne isn't normally a port of entry. When we berthed the Customs agent was at the wharf to meet us; she'd driven up from Napier that day especially to clear us in.

The process was very simple, because we'd returned within 14 days of departure (and hadn't actually gone anywhere) they just cancelled our outward clearance from Tauranga. Technically the record states we never left NZ. The Customs Officer told us it happens more often than one might think. With Covid I'd presume we'd have been required to do the 14 days isolation/quarantine, but I don't know that for sure.

So Customs do have a process for failed departures. I gather it's pretty much the same for planes that need to turn round and return.

 

[wheels 544]

Thanks for clarifying that grantmc

[Steve Pope 253]

An aside re a yacht returning to NZ because a crew member (1st time sailor) couldn't handle being out of sight of land, the yacht and crew were cleared in, but when leaving the 2nd time a few days later they had to re-do Cat1 although nothing Cat 1 wise had changed.

[grantmc 59]

2 hours ago, Steve Pope said:

An aside re a yacht returning to NZ because a crew member (1st time sailor) couldn't handle being out of sight of land, the yacht and crew were cleared in, but when leaving the 2nd time a few days later they had to re-do Cat 1 although nothing Cat 1 wise had changed.

Not only if you return. We gained our Cat 1 in Wellington in April  2017, sailed up to BoI for checkout there, but weather window closed and we were stuck at Opua for a couple of weeks. The inspector had only given us an expiry of 1 month from inspection date (or first overseas port). So had to have the Cat 1 redone and of course pay again. 

As an aside there doesn't seem to be clarity and/or consistency for/between inspectors as to the expiry date of a Category Certificate. Recently crewed on another yacht and the inspector entered the expiry date as 12 months following inspection date (or first port).

[waikiore 484]

Yes that happened and they almost lost all the good inspectors, happily most have returned (or retired).  Back to the original post -it seems the managing of these vessels once here and in Quarantine period is the major logistics hurdle.

One solution would be to take 10 cruisers at a time and let them in to Wharengaere Bay (crater bay) off the Te Puna inlet to anchor and serve out their time. Very sheltered from all quarters

the KeriKeri providores could easily supply them food and booze etc, we could string something across the entrance to stop them leaving, the locals could watch them and Winston could be called in to advise them that anyone coming ashore would be eaten.

As from next month the time spent offshore coming down here is to be taken off their quarantine anyway, I dont particularly care about the Superyacht crowd but we should be able to provide for the couples and families cruising the Pacific also bringing business to the Marine industry that would otherwise go to Aussie.

 

[Rangi1 51]

I think the Wharengaere locals may have something to say about the sewage from 10 boats for 14 days being pumped into their front yard. It's pretty contained in that bay...

[Fish 0]

1 hour ago, waikiore said:

One solution would be to take 10 cruisers at a time and let them in to Wharengaere Bay (crater bay) off the Te Puna inlet to anchor and serve out their time. Very sheltered from all quarters

the KeriKeri providores could easily supply them food and booze etc, we could string something across the entrance to stop them leaving, the locals could watch them and Winston could be called in to advise them that anyone coming ashore would be eaten.

As from next month the time spent offshore coming down here is to be taken off their quarantine anyway, I dont particularly care about the Superyacht crowd but we should be able to provide for the couples and families cruising the Pacific also bringing business to the Marine industry that would otherwise go to Aussie.

 

Why not put them in a quarantine facility like everyone else? I don't think accommodation is the problem, its the provision of monitoring, health checks and available health care that is the issue.

As we are finding out with this evangelical cluster, you can't just trust people to do what they are told. The consequences are too great. That is why the army is now running security at these places.

And I am a bit bemused by the thread title. Is NZ a seafaring nation? I think the vast majority of people got here on a jet plane. That would make us an aviation nation wouldn't it? Serious question, what makes a seafaring nation?