Fire at Pine Harbor

[twisty 176]

30 years ago I remember sailing on Eric Wings Marimba 2. He had two 9kg gas bottles inside the boat beside the stove. He had a hose connected to the blow off valves of both bottles venting over the side. His view was, Do the cooking, turn off the bottle. The only potential danger was the bottle overheating or being overfilled and the blow off valve letting go. Hence the hose on the valve.

I can't see a flaw in his logic. I doubt it would come anywhere near passing gas regs.

I am horrified listening to everyone saying that electric is the way to go now. It's getting harder and harder to find an anchorage away from generators. Starting them at 6 oclock to make a cup of tea in the morning blisfully unaware of anyone else certainly gets my goat !!!

[khayyam 101]

18 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Where can you put that many solar panels without looking like a junkyard? 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/3426069003

 

I won't pass judgement on the aesthetics, but will give you an idea. 

[Psyche 794]

for a lot of people boating is taking, or aspiring to take a 2 bedroom apartment out for the weekend. Kero will not stand!

[Ex Machina 390]

Check these out ….https://wallas.fi/products/?_sft_product_types=stoves-and-ovens

didn’t even know they were a thing . A quick search shows that advance trident can get them . Would far prefer one these to massive outlay and complexity involved switching to electric hobs/oven 

[aardvarkash10 1,103]

6 hours ago, Frank said:

Diesel and kero seem to boil the kettle more quickly, I assume they have a higher calorific value ? My wife says the odour is disgusting if you are seasick which is why I have stuck to alcohol, gotta keep GM  Domestic Operations happy.

 

tbh, this is an exercise in engineering and construction.  If it works acceptably (including aesthetics and sensory assessments), that will be a bonus.

I do like the idea of only having one fuel type on board.  It simplifies a lot of things - even little things like "did anyone remember to fill the gas bottle / is the bottle in test?", it reduces storage use (no gas locker) and the like.  I'm sure it has downsides too - odour and lighting processes being the main ones for me.

And diesel just does not go Bang on its own, even if litres of it are drifting in the bilges...

 

[CarpeDiem 527]

3 hours ago, khayyam said:

Our sparky told me not long ago that new (home) induction cooktops can draw 40a (@230V). Pretty hard to manage on a boat!

Newer boats do seem to have electric cooking arrangements, to my surprise. But even with 1-2kw of solar I think really you'd be relying a lot on the genset to get those batteries charged. Really you're starting to look at boat systems which rival off-grid home systems, and you'd really struggle with 2kw solar for the sort of mod cons these boats are expecting.

[Serious thread drift now occurring...]

I think you've over estimated how much power you actually use to cook a meal.

I strongly doubt you'd ever use that much power cooking at home or on a boat.  40A @ 230v is 9.2kW - that's enough energy to vaporize 1kg of ice in less than 5 minutes.  You'd boil that same ice in less than 45 seconds.

Our little Breville oven, preheating to it's maximum of 230degC, peaks at 1800W of power consumption.  After 30 minutes of runtime, so 5 mins preheat and 25min cook-time, the oven had used less than 0.4kWh of energy.

That's long enough to turn any pizza to charcoal...

 

 

 

[Black Panther 1,765]

2 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

Check these out ….https://wallas.fi/products/?_sft_product_types=stoves-and-ovens

didn’t even know they were a thing . A quick search shows that advance trident can get them . Would far prefer one these to massive outlay and complexity involved switching to electric hobs/oven 

Only 2 burners.

[harrytom 697]

4 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

And diesel just does not go Bang on its own, even if litres of it are drifting in the bilges...

correct stand there all day with box of matches and it wont ignite until you get a vapour

[CarpeDiem 527]

5 hours ago, Ex Machina said:

Check these out ….https://wallas.fi/products/?_sft_product_types=stoves-and-ovens

didn’t even know they were a thing . A quick search shows that advance trident can get them . Would far prefer one these to massive outlay and complexity involved switching to electric hobs/oven 

The issue I found when investigating those Wallas oven/stove combos was, apart from the $10,000 price tag, the specific requirements for the chimney.

The outlets have to be 12" above the water line when heeled over and the siphon loop has to be another 12" above that.

This means that on any yacht that heels and periodically dips it's toe rails the unit has to be somehow exhausted up to the top/centre of the cabin top.

Would work great on a launch or a Cat that doesn't suffer from heel.

Not to mention that $10,000 would buy a top of the line Lithium installation.

[Psyche 794]

A lot of this depends on how much you use the boat, a simple well maintained system is the best option. For most of us its gas, because it's clean. well understood and fast. My petrol powered MSR climbing stove for boat use is rated "reckless" but its the next step down from oxy-acetylene in terms of boiling water   Whatever the caravaners/motorhome crowd do, we boaters won't be too far behind.

[khayyam 101]

6 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

[Serious thread drift now occurring...]

I think you've over estimated how much power you actually use to cook a meal.

I strongly doubt you'd ever use that much power cooking at home or on a boat.  40A @ 230v is 9.2kW - that's enough energy to vaporize 1kg of ice in less than 5 minutes.  You'd boil that same ice in less than 45 seconds.

Our little Breville oven, preheating to it's maximum of 230degC, peaks at 1800W of power consumption.  After 30 minutes of runtime, so 5 mins preheat and 25min cook-time, the oven had used less than 0.4kWh of energy.

That's long enough to turn any pizza to charcoal...

 

 

 

Peak draw only, not sustained. But probably not something you'd want your boat system trying to cope with! 

[wild violet 38]

On 19/03/2022 at 7:08 AM, Frank said:

From the interweb 

Is methylated spirit the same as alcohol?

 

 

Commonly used methylated spirits is a general-purpose alcohol which is not fit for drinking. This is because approximately 10% methanol has been added to it, along with additives such as pyridine, isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl isobutyl ketone.21/02/2022

Fiji in the early eightys needed some meths to light the stove took ages to find any in the end had to go to chemist and sign for it,as the locals used to drink the stuff.

[aardvarkash10 1,103]

1 hour ago, Psyche said:

My petrol powered MSR climbing stove for boat use is rated "reckless"

hehe!  I have a couple of old primus "white spirits" stoves, from back in the days when white spirits was clear unleaded petrol.  I love those things!  Warm them with your hands, light blue touch paper, stand well clear...  They run great on 91 octane.

But I would never, under any circumstances, have them on a boat.

[aardvarkash10 1,103]

while we are miles OT, is anyone else's OCD kicking in over the thread title?

[Frank 166]

12 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

The issue I found when investigating those Wallas oven/stove combos was, apart from the $10,000 price tag, the specific requirements for the chimney.

The outlets have to be 12" above the water line when heeled over and the siphon loop has to be another 12" above that.

This means that on any yacht that heels and periodically dips it's toe rails the unit has to be somehow exhausted up to the top/centre of the cabin top.

Would work great on a launch or a Cat that doesn't suffer from heel.

Not to mention that $10,000 would buy a top of the line Lithium installation.

We looked at those and came close to purchasing one before watching a few videos that compared the time it took to boil water with various options compared.  Gas and Induction were hands down the fastest, while the Wallas Stove was comparatively slow, it does have the option of an accessory top that functions as heater but that adds more cost. I think they were about 7K when we looked at them last.  With induction most folks just pulled the $100 plug in unit from a storage drawer and sat it on the benchtop  in this way there was no bench space permanently occupied by the cooktop. 

[Ex Machina 390]

15 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

The issue I found when investigating those Wallas oven/stove combos was, apart from the $10,000 price tag, the specific requirements for the chimney.

The outlets have to be 12" above the water line when heeled over and the siphon loop has to be another 12" above that.

This means that on any yacht that heels and periodically dips it's toe rails the unit has to be somehow exhausted up to the top/centre of the cabin top.

Would work great on a launch or a Cat that doesn't suffer from heel.

Not to mention that $10,000 would buy a top of the line Lithium installation.

Sheesh ! Thanks for looking up the price ! 

[Steve Pope 253]

I seem to remember that Wallas stoves were fitted to police? customs? pilot? vessels. Their was an article in Skipper Mag a year or 3 or more back, about a new build. They could be used as a heater as well. The price back then was beyond the reach of most yachties. Of course the Dikinson diesel stoves are still available,  but much more suitable for Southern waters on fishing boats. There was / is? an importer / agent in Invercargill / bluff.

[marinheiro 364]

the neighbouring classic launch

https://waitematawoodys.com/2022/03/21/kokoru-ravaged-in-marina-fire-a-call-for-help/

[johnmac 3]

On 18/03/2022 at 10:46 AM, Psyche said:

The best, but spendy http://www.bertschi-petrol.ch/

Yes they are the most efficient once up & running, but not the best overall. I've done back to back tests of the Optimist 207, Optimist 9007, Bertschi and the new German made 207 types. The best overall are the original Optimist 207 type - fastest to preheat & quickest overall to heat a measured litre of cold water. 

In this case you can't bets the original. 

I service & repair kero & meths stoves if anyone needs one brought up to speed. 

[John B 113]

19 hours ago, marinheiro said:

the neighbouring classic launch

https://waitematawoodys.com/2022/03/21/kokoru-ravaged-in-marina-fire-a-call-for-help/

Another hint on that site that the fire is related to a battery installation.