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Rich guy puts weight behind anti-Waiheke Marina movement


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12 hours ago, Tamure said:

I know that any marine work is expensive times 1000 but when a see a concrete pontoon worth not much and 4 poles in the ground, I wonder what I am really paying for.

Agreed. Marina in France, 2,300 euro per year for 11m berth. Marina has ALL the facilities, and they replaced my finger over the winter, AND this marina has to be dredged regularly. There are two marina's in the city. So it's not like there's a massive choice.

Compare to Westhaven: 883.50 * 12 (12m berth) $10,602 NZD a year = €6,278 per year.

OK so a 12m berth in my marina is: €2522,90 per year... Westhaven is nowhere near as nice. 

Given France's strong workers rights, excellent employment laws, strict environmental rules, reasonably high taxes, excellent infrastructure and high (globally) living standard you can't argue it's not comparable to NZ. France median income was about 12% less (2010 can't find newer comparative data) but that's not really going to explain the price difference.

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Knot Me, the new moorings at Rakino are news to me... where can we submit? Im assuming you are talking about Woody Bay where there already is one of the buggers already

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On 6/04/2021 at 7:40 PM, Zozza said:

That is weird burying sewage tanks...and just leaving them there.  
I suppose a  poo sewage expert will be along shortly advise this is normal practice for Marinas....

The tanks are just holding tanks. The wastewater will then be transferred and trucked to the Greenacres site on Waiheke, which deals with the desludging waste from septic tanks on the island. 

I'm not sure about water but they will likely tanker it in, which is fairly common for the commercial operations on the island. 

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1 hour ago, Veladare said:

Knot Me, the new moorings at Rakino are news to me... where can we submit? Im assuming you are talking about Woody Bay where there already is one of the buggers already

Closed for submissions now unfortunately sorry. Not Woody this time.

They want to drop a few more in the SW corner under that da-de-da-da place on point above. The gist is they are subdividing that land and some of the new sections need a mooring for access.

The mooring in Woody Bay is available for use by the general public. That is a condition of it being allowed and it has ALWAYS been the case, not that some and the media wanted you to know that as it fucked with their narrative. The owner has zero problem with it being used, at the boaters own risk, and all he wants is to be able to use it when he's there, he has a house there (the one his son burnt down a year or 3 back). But he uses it rarely so the mooring is mostly empty.

A condition of these proposed moorings is they are also open for public use when the holders aren't using them. But having experienced the utter wankery and dangerous wankery of the holder when he came in in his bland boring over price POS tupperware and went 'off' big time at a boat on the mooring with threats and a pretend (or had a change of mind at the last second) ramming, I'd expect any public using it may cop some abuse at times. Only an assumption there but it is based on previous history.

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13 hours ago, DrWatson said:

Agreed. Marina in France, 2,300 euro per year for 11m berth. Marina has ALL the facilities, and they replaced my finger over the winter, AND this marina has to be dredged regularly. There are two marina's in the city. So it's not like there's a massive choice.

Compare to Westhaven: 883.50 * 12 (12m berth) $10,602 NZD a year = €6,278 per year.

OK so a 12m berth in my marina is: €2522,90 per year... Westhaven is nowhere near as nice. 

Given France's strong workers rights, excellent employment laws, strict environmental rules, reasonably high taxes, excellent infrastructure and high (globally) living standard you can't argue it's not comparable to NZ. France median income was about 12% less (2010 can't find newer comparative data) but that's not really going to explain the price difference.

France appears to be an "outlier" in this respect, maybe berth rentals are subsidised there as the government does put a lot of money into boating.

Looking across the channel searched a couple of UK examples. The south coast is dominated by Premier marinas, who if you believe letters in the UK yachting mags can give Westhaven lessons in how to rip off customers.

For a 12 m berth pa

Brighton: €5,900  https://www.premiermarinas.com/UK-Marina-locations/Brighton-Marina/Rates-and-charges

Port Solent: €8,275  https://www.premiermarinas.com/UK-Marina-locations/Port-Solent-Marina/Rates-and-charges

which explains why quite a few UK boat owners have chosen to berth their boats in France

 

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2 hours ago, KM... said:

Closed for submissions now unfortunately sorry. Not Woody this time.

They want to drop a few more in the SW corner under that da-de-da-da place on point above. The gist is they are subdividing that land and some of the new sections need a mooring for access.

The mooring in Woody Bay is available for use by the general public. That is a condition of it being allowed and it has ALWAYS been the case, not that some and the media wanted you to know that as it fucked with their narrative. The owner has zero problem with it being used, at the boaters own risk, and all he wants is to be able to use it when he's there, he has a house there (the one his son burnt down a year or 3 back). But he uses it rarely so the mooring is mostly empty.

A condition of these proposed moorings is they are also open for public use when the holders aren't using them. But having experienced the utter wankery and dangerous wankery of the holder when he came in in his bland boring over price POS tupperware and went 'off' big time at a boat on the mooring with threats and a pretend (or had a change of mind at the last second) ramming, I'd expect any public using it may cop some abuse at times. Only an assumption there but it is based on previous history.

OK thanks for that.

That one in Woody is a complete ball ache.

Ive seen people tie to it claiming to be the owner, on 2 very different boats, and Ive seen words exchanged between boats in regards to it.... how are supposed to know who owns it...?

I think they should remove it, it chews up a large amount of space in a very small bay which is popular in ever increasing wind condition

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Agree there V, there needs to be either some form of easy way of the owner (technically just a holder) to be identified...or they are pulled. Heard of Woody conflict and seen a few around the 2 on the SW corner.

I know the Woody owner and while being a rich prick he is very reasonable but I don't know his kids and they would be the ones to use it most. So....... ;)

Yeap, it is a small bay to have a large chunk taken up by one mooring.

If any more like this come up I'll post here sooner. Many do come up and we jump on them, if required, but there is politics at play so at times going wide can get counter productive. There are a few scraps on, got word today I've another day sitting in a Town Hall Hearing in 2 weeks time, this is the 3rd time for the same thing....Oh joy. 

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10 hours ago, marinheiro said:

France appears to be an "outlier" in this respect, maybe berth rentals are subsidised there as the government does put a lot of money into boating.

Looking across the channel searched a couple of UK examples. The south coast is dominated by Premier marinas, who if you believe letters in the UK yachting mags can give Westhaven lessons in how to rip off customers.

For a 12 m berth pa

Brighton: €5,900  https://www.premiermarinas.com/UK-Marina-locations/Brighton-Marina/Rates-and-charges

Port Solent: €8,275  https://www.premiermarinas.com/UK-Marina-locations/Port-Solent-Marina/Rates-and-charges

which explains why quite a few UK boat owners have chosen to berth their boats in France

 

Yeah the UK is not a great example, but there must be plenty of less expensive Marinas. 

The marinas I checked in Germany, The Netherlands, Italy and Croatia were all much more aligned to the French price range than the English.  Chanel Islands (Jersey) were a bit more than Brittany, and the Med in general was a bit more than what I'm paying also, with French marina's there about 20-30% more, and Greek marinas (Lavrio) being slightly more expensive than in Brest. 

Something else you notice in the marina's in France - most of the boats are in great condition, clean and well maintained. 
Private companies providing shoreside services are also moderately priced and efficient. 

 

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don't normally read fb much and I know the fact that it's posted by Chloe Swarbrick will have multiple eyes rolling in peoples head, but...

WTF are the developers on to actively get offside with even more people than they're offside with already.

They might have the consents required but if they are actually breaking them at the first step as she suggests then surely you're putting the whole project at risk?

Have got word from Protect Kennedy Point peaceful occupiers on the ground/moana that developer works are firing up to dismantle the rock wall home to our little blue penguins, kororā. I contacted Waiheke’s Local Board Chair, Cath Handley, who has now publicly said that officials had yesterday received a statement these works would not start until at the very least a solution to rehome these penguins was found.
Am in touch with the protectors and officials and will communicate any and all updates, but if any folks are able to get down to Pūtiki Bay/Kennedy Point to support, please do. 🐧
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2 hours ago, muzled said:

don't normally read fb much and I know the fact that it's posted by Chloe Swarbrick will have multiple eyes rolling in peoples head, but...

WTF are the developers on to actively get offside with even more people than they're offside with already.

They might have the consents required but if they are actually breaking them at the first step as she suggests then surely you're putting the whole project at risk?

Have got word from Protect Kennedy Point peaceful occupiers on the ground/moana that developer works are firing up to dismantle the rock wall home to our little blue penguins, kororā. I contacted Waiheke’s Local Board Chair, Cath Handley, who has now publicly said that officials had yesterday received a statement these works would not start until at the very least a solution to rehome these penguins was found.
Am in touch with the protectors and officials and will communicate any and all updates, but if any folks are able to get down to Pūtiki Bay/Kennedy Point to support, please do. 🐧

This was covered extensively in the Environment Court Hearings

https://www2.justice.govt.nz/website-documents/NZEnvC-081-Walden-v-Auckland-Council-SKP-Inc-v-Auckland-Council.pdf

it can be downloaded and searched for "Penguins". Usual story of the objectors not accepting the umpires decision

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Sounds like the developers have stopped work now due to the protesters. 

There could be 30 or 40 penguin nests in the rock wall but maybe only 2 occupied.

 

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The number of appeals made, and the basis of those appeals, it looks like the Save Kennedy Point people are "vexatious litigants". They are really taking the piss. Send them the bill. I note they have a CEO... strange.

 

The below is after the full RC process, going to the Environment Court. SKP claimed there was a miscarriage of justice because Iwi were not consulted. The Supreme Court said this: It also found there was no miscarriage of justice because the Ngāti Paoa Trust Board had an opportunity to make a submission when the application was publicly notified, but didn't, and SKP had not produced any evidence of adverse cultural effects arising from the project.

 

In 2016, the marina business won consent to develop the project but that was appealed unsuccessfully in the Environment Court by opponents.

SKP then went to the High Court to have that rejection overturned but they were late filing their appeal and although they sought leave to extend that period, they lost.

At the same time as that application was going on, they tried to go back to the Environment Court for a rehearing on the basis that there had been new and important evidence, or there had been a change in circumstance, which justified the new hearing.

That was heard in 2019 by the Environment Court, which rejected the opponents' case.

So SKP appealed that at the High Court. That matter was heard in June last year but the High Court said there were no errors of law by the Environment Court.

But the opponents again filed an application to appeal that High Court decision to the Court of Appeal. That was rejected late last year. The judges said they made their decision because the High Court's ruling was well-reasoned and cogent.

So SKP appealed the decision to the Supreme Court, hoping for a substantive hearing. That was rejected.

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22 minutes ago, dutyfree said:

And people wonder why developments cost money

It is a development that converts public land to a private use.  It should stand close scrutiny.

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22 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

It is a development that converts public land to a private use.  It should stand close scrutiny.

It did, via the Environment Court. The rest is just vexatious litigants. This has been going on since 2016. I fully agree it needs to stand close scrutiny. But there is close scrutiny, sore loosers and people who blatantly don't understand the process, and when they should be engaging with it.

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14 minutes ago, Fish said:

The rest is just vexatious litigants.

This is true if the courts say its vexatious.  I understand they now have.  That's how it works.

I don't at all disagree with your other points and would go further - there are those who use the process as sport.

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1 hour ago, aardvarkash10 said:

This is true if the courts say its vexatious.  I understand they now have.  That's how it works.

I don't at all disagree with your other points and would go further - there are those who use the process as sport.

A bit like some on here.

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