Guest 000 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm sorry KM, but I'm just going to have to come out and say it. I think your out of touch with reality. Actually, I don't think he is. We've got as bit of cash put by for spending on lunatic ideas, but for the rest we live very nicely on the government pension, even managing to save a bit from it which paid for our recent cycle trip to Austria. Our home is mortgage free which is a big plus but then we also have the most expensive rates in the country. There is an adage that we have lived by our whole life and that is, If we can afford it we'll buy it. If we can't afford to buy it I'll make it. If I can't make it we'll do without. It saves a lot of strife. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 we don't need you driving ambos mate - we need you in schools! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Gotta change that avatar! Resigned (again) a little while back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madyottie 82 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm with KM on this one. Single modest income, four kids, far too many toys, and own the place we live in. On circa 50k, just missed out on a nice place in Auckland when the market went mental. That was just bad timing. I'm not sure I could have bought in Auckland a decade back either but I know I'm earning a lot more on less hours now. Spare money was just as hard to find as a single guy back then. I'm sure someone will quote that last sentence in a humorous way, but I can't be bothered thinking about the grammar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I've missed a point, apparently. If so many people have so much disposable income, and can buy a house and run a household on one income, why is it that the price of 30 yr old kiwi boats is dropping? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wild violet 38 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Fish i think there are a lot less sailors coming through the ranks now,and all the old sailors are dropping off leaving a glut of boats on the market.On the bright side boats are much more affordable now 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I've missed a point, apparently.If so many people have so much disposable income, and can buy a house and run a household on one income, why is it that the price of 30 yr old kiwi boats is dropping?[/quote We have a H28 which looks very beautiful through my rose tinted glasses. This is your typical 30 foot 30-40 year old kiwi production yacht. In reality, the two quarter berths are totally useless for sleeping in because the deck is about six inches above your nose when you're in it. Because of her tucked in ends the accommodation is very limited. The forward V- berth is OK if your on your honeymoon, not much good for sleeping in though. This leaves only the saloon berths as viable sleeping places. Access on sand off is not all that easy- a walk through transom would be nice. Long keel and fairly bluff bows means going to windward is not very good, not a very fast boat etc etc... She was a desirable boat in her day but things have moved on. A modern import boat of the same LOA will give me much better performance, a separate sleeping cabin, more suitable accommodation, a comfortable cockpit, a walk thru transom... Anyone want to swap? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 She was a desirable boat in her day but things have moved on. A modern import boat of the same LOA will give me much better performance, a separate sleeping cabin, more suitable accommodation, a comfortable cockpit, a walk thru transom... Anyone want to swap? Classic!That's what I reckon is going on, the "utility" of the older boats is coming down. When the price of the newer boats also comes down, the differential between the older cheaper option and the newer pricy option reduces. As in any free market, more people start going for the new boat option, until the price of the old boats drop to meet the equilibrium in the market. I don't think it's just a case of old sailors retiring, otherwise the marinas would be empty and near free. They aren't. I suspect there are loads of newbie sailors getting into these easy to handle (self tacking jib, sail like a bath tub) maintenance free (for a few years) new boats with enough features to keep the missus happy, (like two heads, to avoid the dead animal smell of who-ever was in there last) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 511 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'd rather have the H28 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'd rather have the H28 Yep, me too in spite of all her shortcomings. A good boat is like a good woman. Better an agreeable wife than a tart with bling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 511 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 New Europeans look good if they are over 40' but the cruising ones around 30' look stupid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 643 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 h28 start price $15k raven 26 $8k reactors/trackers $7k cav 30/32 $20k cav 26 low as $5k,all good production yachts admittedly some need tlc $2k and youve got a comfortable cruiser some need new engines .Reality inexpensive vessels that a young couple can/could afford. But where the young guys/girls who have sailed their youth at Kohi/glendowie etc where do they go too?certainly not joining yacht clubs and moving up on to bigger yachts as most clubs have dropped in membership. perhaps 16/17 yr olds discovered boys/girls saturday night parties? even in my younger day thought nothing of it buying a hartley 16ft and just go sailing Friday night to Sunday.Times are changing,house prices,6 day weeks etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 That's because I believe most yacht clubs are run by old farts who are not in touch with young people and yachting. Put someone in their 20's in a position of control at a yacht club and see what happens. I don't know that there are no 17/18 year olds with yachts but even at 20k that's a lot of money for most early 20's people when they have other priorities such as paying off student loans and spending money on travel. Oh and buying or trying to buy a house. Auckland is the dream for most people buy why not just head South where housing is more affordable and the lifestyle is better. Commute to Auckland on an as need basis. Worked for me when I was in my 20's and that was 20 years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wild violet 38 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Yup the euro boats are put together like warehouse chilly bins, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 That's because I believe most yacht clubs are run by old farts who are not in touch with young people and yachting. Put someone in their 20's in a position of control at a yacht club and see what happens. Nah - don't buy that. Most 'old farts' would actually love to see more younger people on their management committees - at least that's the case in the three clubs I'm a member of Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rjp 4 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Nah - don't buy that. Most 'old farts' would actually love to see more younger people on their management committees - at least that's the case in the three clubs I'm a member of Not so sure about that when push comes to shove. Yes availability of free time and disposable income is a critical element. But, I think there is much more 'whats in it for me' now compared to the 60's, 70's and 80's. I have seen more than once, and sailing friends at different clubs have said the same thing, the older members stymie expenditures/plans that won't benefit them directly. The refrain 'if it lasts 5-10 years thats good enough as i'll be gone by then' seems to be heard pretty commonly. Spend money on new training boats, provide free or subsidised membership to high school or young adults -No way. But spend a magnitude more dollars to improve the dock/ramp so they can get into/onto it more easily and they are all over that -especially if the debt is paid off over time and there is a chance it will outlive their membership. The 'leave it better than you found it' or 'do something to help a mate' quotient is much lower now I believe. This is in no way unique to Yacht Clubs but seems now to be entrenched in the Kiwi culture. The recent thread on trade me quality/pricing/sellers bears this out. If I can get away with it and make a killing then thats what I'll do damn it. One thing leads to another.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 The old Kiwi family boat was good for the times; the kids slept like sardines and Mom and Dad sent them off in the dinghy when they needed romance. All well and good but these days people expect a bit more as things have changed socially as well.Well there is the nub of the problem.People expect more these days but why is that? It seems to us old people that if you expect to have on board all the comforts of home then, stay home. And what a rod you create for your own back with all these expectations of luxury. In our recent six week cycle tour of Austria we slept on the ground in a small tent which was perfectly acceptable to us. If we required all the comforts of a hotel each night then indeed we could not have afforded the trip and then missed out big time. And furthermore, I believe that we are responsible for instilling in our children these unreasonable expectations. Our grandchildren enjoy coming to stay with us because in their eyes we do 'exciting stuff' which is nothing different than what we did as kids. We are becoming a namby-pamby lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I think the changes in the yacht market are more to do with lack of time than lack of money. If you do the sums with depreciation the new Euro awb will cost more to own than the 30 yr old Kiwi boat. However you will have to invest more time to keep the Kiwi boat functioning and that isn't what most want to do these days. Another trap has been buying the dream "I'm going to sail to Fiji in 5 years" rather than the nice gulf cruiser that is ideal for what you are doing now. I think more are giving up on the dream now and the fall in prices of the heavier offshore boats has been proportionally more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 511 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 This explains why the price of Noelex 25's and perhaps Noelex 30's are going up if anything. Passed a 25 today (strangely without a mast) and reflected on what a pretty boat they are. Mate of mine has a share in a Westhaven Bavaria and suits his needs perfectly at the moment. But he's moving to Whitianga along with us eventually and will probably get a Noelex 25. We'll race the Dragon, pop over to the Merc's in the Noelex for the night. We just need someone with a fizzy to go fishing in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregW 28 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'm sure someone will quote that last sentence in a humorous way, but I can't be bothered thinking about the grammar. LOL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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